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[Edmonton Sun]Taliban put 6-year-old Afghan boy in suicide vest, he alleges

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Ottomaton, Jun 26, 2007.

  1. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    Who knows, it may be propaganda. I believe it is not as I think they would be more concerned about propagandizing Iraq. If it is not, the idea of tricking a six year old boy into suicide bombing sincerely pisses me off.

    [rquoter]
    Taliban put 6-year-old Afghan boy in suicide vest, he alleges

    Tribal leaders left in tears

    [​IMG]

    By AP

    FORWARD OPERATING BASE THUNDER, Afghanistan — The story of a six-year-old Afghan boy who says he thwarted an effort by Taliban militants to trick him into being a suicide bomber provoked tears and anger at a meeting of tribal leaders.

    The account from Juma Gul, a dirt-caked child who collects scrap metal for money, left American soldiers dumbfounded that a youngster could be sent on such a mission. Afghan troops crowded around the boy to call him a hero.

    Though the Taliban dismissed the story as propaganda, at a time when U.S. and NATO forces are under increasing criticism over civilian casualties, both Afghan tribal elders and U.S. military officers said they were convinced by his dramatic account.

    Juma said that sometime last month Taliban fighters forced him to wear a vest they said would spray out flowers when he touched a button. He said they told him that when he saw American soldiers, “throw your body at them.”

    The militants cornered Juma in a Taliban-controlled district in southern Afghanistan’s Ghazni province. Their target was an impoverished youngster being raised by an older sister — but also one who proved too street-smart for their plan.

    “When they first put the vest on my body I didn’t know what to think, but then I felt the bomb,” Juma told The Associated Press as he ate lamb and rice after being introduced to the elders at this joint U.S.-Afghan base in Ghazni. “After I figured out it was a bomb, I went to the Afghan soldiers for help.”

    Local government believes story

    While Juma’s story could not be independently verified, local government leaders backed his account and the U.S. and NATO military missions said they believed his story.

    Abdul Rahim Deciwal, the chief administrator for Juma’s village of Athul, brought the boy and an older brother, Dad Gul, to a weekend meeting between Afghan elders and U.S. army Col. Martin Schweitzer.

    Schweitzer called the Taliban’s attempt “a cowardly act.”

    As Deciwal told Juma’s story, 20 Afghan elders repeatedly clicked their tongues in sadness and disapproval. When the boy and his brother were brought in, several of the turban-wearing men welled up, wiping their eyes with handkerchiefs.

    “If anybody has a heart, then how can you control yourself (before) these kids?” Deciwal said in broken English.

    Wallets quickly opened, and the boys were handed $60 in American and Afghan currency, a good chunk of money in a country where teachers and police earn $70 a month.

    Afghan officials described the boys as extremely poor, and Juma said he is being raised by his sister because his father works in a bakery in Pakistan and his mother lives and does domestic work in another village.

    “I think the boy is intelligent,” Deciwal said. “When he comes from the enemy he found a checkpoint of the ANA (Afghan National Army), and he asked the ANA: ’Hey, can you help me? Somebody gave me this jacket and I don’t know what’s inside but maybe something bad.”’

    Lt.-Col. George Graff, a father of five who attended the meeting, also teared up.

    'It just tore me up'

    “Relating to them as a father and trying to fathom somebody using one of my children for that kind of a purpose, jeez, it just tore me up,” said Graff, a National Guard soldier from St. George, Utah.

    “The depths that these people will go to get what they want, which is power for themselves — it’s just disgusting.”

    A Taliban spokesman, Qari Yousef Ahmadi, denied the militant group uses child fighters, saying it has hundreds of adults ready for suicide missions.

    “We don’t need to use a child,” Ahmadi told the AP by satellite phone. “It’s against Islamic law, it’s against humanitarian law. This is just propaganda against the Taliban.”

    However, a gory Taliban video that surfaced in April showed militants instructing a boy of about 12 as he beheaded an alleged traitor with a large knife. UN officials condemned the act as a war crime.

    Fidgety but smiling during all the attention, Juma told the AP that he had been scared when he was surrounded by Taliban fighters. He cupped his hands together to show the size of the bomb, then ran his hands along his waist to show where it was on his body.

    A fan of soccer, Juma said his favourite subject in school is Pashto, his native language, but he also showed off a little English, shyly counting “One, two, three ...” before breaking out in an oversize smile.

    Raised in a country where birthdays are not always carefully tracked, Juma said he is four. But he looks older and Afghan officials said he is about six. His brother appears to be a year or so older.

    Their village lies in Ghazni province’s Andar district, a Taliban stronghold targeted this month in a joint Afghan-U.S. operation. The region remains dangerous and Afghan elders worry for Juma’s safety.

    Maj. John Thomas, a spokesman for NATO’s International Security Assistance Force, said he was “a bit skeptical” about Juma’s story at first, “but everything I’ve heard makes me more and more comfortable.”

    Thomas said the case would force soldiers to think twice before assuming children are safe.

    “This is one incident. We hope it doesn’t repeat itself. But it gives us reason to pause, to be extra careful,” he said. “We want to publicize this as much as we can to the Afghan people so that they can protect their children from these killers.”

    Col. Sayed Waqef Shah, a religious and cultural affairs officer for the Afghan army, wiped away tears after seeing Juma. “Whenever I see this kind of action from the Taliban, if I am able to arrest them, I’ll kill them on the spot,” he said.

    Haji Niaz Mohammad, one of the elders at the gathering, said he hoped “God makes the Afghan government strong” so it can defeat the Taliban.

    “They are the enemy of Muslims and the enemy of the children,” he said, shaking his fists in anger.

    [/rquoter]

    source
     
  2. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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    who cares :confused: ...america has secret prisons!

    :D
     
  3. tinman

    tinman Member
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    secret prisons rock!
    what about that prison that they are holding Megatron? what about that one made out of plastic they are holding Magneto?
     
  4. insane man

    insane man Member

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    rape? who cares! yay! go america!
     
  5. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    That's pretty ****ed up. I hope it's not true.

    :(
     
  6. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    It's the Taliban. They have done worse than this.
     
  7. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

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    In Donkey's world, you can only be against one or the other. And if you're against secret prisons and the torture that goes down in them, you're for strapping bombs to kids.

    What an ass.
     
  8. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    what does that have to do with this story?

    glad to see you find it humorous though. :rolleyes:
     
  9. nyquil82

    nyquil82 Member

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    that's messed up, its almost as bad as showing commercials that makes joining the military look like a video game.
     
  10. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    It is?
     
  11. dntrwl

    dntrwl Member

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    What if he did it and flowers really did spurt out. It would be like a woman farting.
     
  12. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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    wow. ya'll really took that bait :D

    tell me more about "my world" :rolleyes:
     
  13. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    That's funny because it was what I was sincerely going to say. The story may well be true, but it is dangerous to always be swapping stories about how evil the enemy is. I don't think any significant amount of people here are under the impression that the Taliban are nice people; we don't need to prove it again and again. Doing so only distorts the picture of who they are and what they want. Meanwhile, there seem to be a significant number of people who'll insist we're the good guys despite a body of evidence of the terrible things we do.

    Secondly, we can't influence the behavior of the Taliban beyond deterring or incapacitating them. Writing about atrocities won't change their behavior. All we can do is fight insurgents and support the government. Meanwhile, as members of the democracy committing atrocities, we have some (little) power to say whether or not we will do these things. It seems worth talking about when you can actually do something about it.

    Third, it is only slightly interesting that someone we expect to do terrible things does terrible things. It is more interesting when people we expect to behave ethically actually behave unethically. As proud citizens, we expect our country to be ethical, whereas we pretty much expect the worst from the Taliban.

    So the 6-year old bomber might be an item of curiosity, but we should be focusing our dialogue on what we're doing, not on what they're doing.
     
  14. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    Horrific if real but without more info it seems questionable. In none of the stories I've seen have they given any detail regarding the bomb vest and nothing I've seen indicates that US personel or the reporters saw it first hand. The kid sounds smart, knows what bomb vests are and knows that the Afghan and US military are worried about them. This seems like it could be a ploy to get some money, food or attention by claiming to have been a suicide bomber.

    There is one huge potential negative implication to this:

    If US and Afghan soldiers believe that children might be suicide bombers I can see children running up to soldiers being killed mistakenly believing they might suicide bombers. Just speculation on my part I wonder if the Taliban gave this kid a false vest or told him tell the troops that he was going to be trained to be a suicide bomber to make the troops uneasy and possibly lead to a situation where a US or Afghan military soldier shoots a child creating a PR disaster.
     
  15. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    The idea of selecting stories to fit some sort of nariative about what issues you think are important strikes me as inherently abhorant and to me is very similar to the idea of only reporting good news in Iraq because it furthers some sort of goal of getting the public 'on board' with the war.

    It is inherently manipulative. I don't want the selection of my content to be driven by whatever story it is you wish to tell. It is exactly why I can't stand Fox News.
     
  16. Jodegam

    Jodegam Member

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    It's bad.

    Where's the debate?
     
  17. tinman

    tinman Member
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    you dont have to watch fox news. you dont have to watch anything. its choice, its information. false or true, how do we know?
    good or bad, depends on your point of view.
    that's why we have msnbc, cnn, fox, bloomberg, e!, espn, etc
    believe what you want.. that's our moto
     
  18. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    I'm not sure how this relates to the direction of the discussion?
     
  19. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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    im a little unsure about the idea that because we know the taliban is already bad it makes the story less relevant. i think people are under the impression that military prisoners are sometimes abused but yet we hear it again and again, or at least hear about vague references of the possibility

    i think the story helps show how these people think and how little they care for human life. Its hard to combat people like that with 5 star hotels for hostile agents captured
     
  20. tinman

    tinman Member
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    this is what u said:

    It is inherently manipulative. I don't want the selection of my content to be driven by whatever story it is you wish to tell. It is exactly why I can't stand Fox News.
     

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