Looking at Cuttino's contract, why should Francis get the max?

This is an inherently flawed argument.

How many franchise calibur PG's are there in the NBA?

How many franchise calibur SG's are there in the NBA?

Exactly.

While it does lend credence to the fact that Francis plays a comparatively more valuable position, that there are fewer point guards better than Francis than shooting guards better than Mobley is not in and of itself a good argument.

And Reggie Miller and Jerry Stackhouse? Saying those two are better than Mobley is foolish at best.

 

Steve is a fireman now.. Damn there goes the rockets season...

 

. Francis is a better shooter, gets more assists, gets more rebounds, plays better defense, and is also getting better.

He's a better shooter? I don't know about that... both are pretty good shooters, but you'll be hard-pressed to find any evidence as to why one is significantly better than another.

He gets more assists? Well, duh. He's the point guard. Gary Payton gets more assists than Kobe Bryant and Vince Carter, does that mean he's a better player?

Steve Francis plays better defense than Mobley? Don't make me laugh. Do you remember how Steve's ankle was originally injured last season? It was when Nick Van Exel completely crossed him over and he ended up falling over himself. Mobley, imho, puts a lot more work into his defense, and is a better one on one defender to this point in their careers.

Also, you don't think Mobley is getting better? He went from 10 ppg as a rookie, to 15 ppg off the bench in his 2nd year, to 22 ppg (as a starter) in his third season. You don't consider that getting better?

His shooting percentage is terrible(418 in preseason).

What a joke. You're giving preseason stats to judge how good of a player Mobley is? You might want to go by stats from when the games actually matter, and when the Rockets have a complete lineup.

Francis is much better than Mobley. He can pass. He can dunk on seven footers. He can takeover a game.

He can dunk on seven footers? WOW! We all know how often that skill is necessary!

Well, chemistry issues aside, we could replace the Cat with other gunners around the league.

You know, I used to think Cuttino Mobley was the most underrated player in the NBA on a national scope. It turns out that he's also extremely underrated by his own fans. What a shame. Cuttino Mobley is irreplacable.

Look, I agree that Steve is worth a max deal. Just because one player signs for cheap doesn't make that the standard. It's the exception to the rule. Steve is a special player, and he's worthy of a max contract. We got Cuttino for a cheap deal, but it doesn't mean we get everyone for that price. We got Cato for a horrible deal, but likewise it's not the standard we go by. Francis will get his maximum contract, but it doesn't mean he's that much more valuable than Cuttino.

 

Posted by WoodlandsBoy:
"It is very hard to spend 36 mil in a lifetime."

Try living in NY my friend!!

 

DP could also stand for double penetration

 

Didn't Mobley dunk on Shawn Bradley as a rookie?

 

<B>Will SamCassell or shanna ever start a Game Action thread?</B>

Hell no (speaking for myself). Hakeem is no longer here, so calling him a whiny b**** would no longer be appropriate or entertaining.

As to your original question, looking at Cato's contract, why shouldn't Francis get the max? For that matter, looking at Cato's contract, why shouldn't Kevin Willis or Oscar Torres get the max? See what kinds of bad things happen when you start comparing individual contracts?

 

Puedlfor, you mean to tell me reggie miller and stackhouse aren't better than Mobley? I think you chase down my post just to debate them. Francis is the Franchise and Mobley is the side kick whether you like it or not. I wouldn't trade Francis for any pg in the league, but if a crackhead gm said i'll give you Allen,Satckhouse,Finley,Mcgrady,Miller,Kobe,iverson,houston or sprewell, or carter, for mobley anyone in their right mind would jump on that. Mobley compliments steve and is a good player, but they call francis Franchise not Mobley!

 

WOOO HOOO
Senational Post Cat,
Post of the Year.
Encapsulates perfectly everything I think about Mobes
RESPECT!!

Like Stackhouse going 0 for didn't have something to do with Mobes' defense.
Robert Pack, Terrell Brandon, GP, Kidd and most starting PGs love Steve's defense, it suits them perfectly, especially if they are after career scoring nights.

AnyHoo, great post Cat

Cut - Tino

PS Shawn Bradley can dunk on 7fters and that doesn't make him a good player!!!

 

How can you people be so blind??? If we had two players as good as Steve Francis last year we would have Given L.A. a run for thier money. You build teams around guys like Steve. Cuttinno is a maniac with a first step.

 

Will SamCassell or shanna ever start a Game Action thread?

Has my brilliant haiku thread already been forgotten?

sammy's haiku thread

 

Sammy,

Not sure that thread counts considering it was a duplicate to start with!

http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/006665.html

 

What you have to understand is, neither can be replaced. They have a unique bond that must be kept together no matter what the price. We are whitnessing greatness and a very unique team in the making. Both players would be lost without each other, no Cuttino means Stevie wont have that mentality of "I got to be doin my best for Cuttino on the court". And same the other way for Cuttino to Francis. Cuttino was a very different player before Francis came in. Stevie seemed to bring out the fire in Cuttino and I believe Cuttino brings the fire out in Steve as well. I agree that Steve if given the max would split some with Cuttino out of respect.

 

MM,

agree with most of what you say except the bit about Cat being a different player before Steve came along, that's in part true, but really before Steve arrived Cat played the Point with Dickheadson playing the 2 spot, who's to say his improvement wouldn't have been the same with another PG arriving and or just shifting to the 2 spot anyway.

Smeg

 

Let's be happy that Mobley signed a reasonable contract which, in hindsight, can be regarded as below market value. I'm sure the Rockets will remember that the next time contract negotiations come up.

Francis' market value is the max. There cannot even be any doubt about it. It's easy to pick an underpaid player and say "why should this guy make 3 times more". If you pick someone like Cato, shouldn't Francis make 20 times more than Cato? It always depends on your point of reference. You will never have 100 % fairness when you compare salaries.

Mobley is great, but Francis is a better player, and Cat knows it. Francis led the team in scoring, rebounds, assists, steals last season. Please stop the insanity of comparing Cat and Francis and asking who is the better player. They have different roles on the team and it is great to have them both.

To raise questions like the provocative question if Francis should make 3 times more than Cat is the best way to start a discussion that could be detrimental to team chemistry.

Please do not sell your mere personal opinion (Dirk will never lead his team to a championship) as a fact. Rocket Addict already pointed this out.

 

It´s a very good argument. The Rockets wanted to keep Mobley, but they didn't want to pay him more than they had to/ could. They payed him acording to his market value, wich might have risen since.

When the time comes for Francis to get a new contract, the Rockets will pay him what it takes to keep him and that will very probably be the max. If we don't give him the max other teams will be willing to give him max $ because thats his market value.

Though Mobley is arguably almost as good a player as Francis his market value is much lower and one of the factors that make it so is the abundance of quality shooting guards.

It may seem unfair, but it's the way of capitalism. Is it not wonderful?

nilsrock

 

Mobley is a bargain several times over.. but i don't see why the forum even needs to talk about the backcourt.. its the best in the west and best in the nba for several more years

 

Mobley got the max from us (technically speaking), he got a better offer (Toronto), but stayed. The Rockets would've payed him more, but they couldn't. We had no chance of getting under the cap.

To answer the thread, if Cuttino's contract is the norm, I'd say Francis would be signing a deal averaging around 7 mill this summer. However, Steve is a max player, and will be payed accordingly. This just shows what a great deal we got for a 20 ppg scorer.

Both players are irreplaceable. 20 ppg scorers with their ability to make plays, and the chemistry of guys who have been playing together for seemingly 12 years don't just come and go. And yes, right now, Cuttino is better than Reggie Miller.

As for the shooter argument, I'd go with Francis by a hair, but close and late? Give me Cuttino.

 

You can't replace either player. They complete each other as a players. They had each other at hello.

 

very cool!

"It meant a lot"......."The trade was done. There was nothing anybody could do. But he was here and said, 'We're going to do this together.' "

- Steve Francis on meeting and clicking immediately with Cuttino Mobley.