I agree with you 100%. It doesn't hurt to look and see what you can get for T-Mac. If it's not good enough you don't pull the trigger. I also think Lewis for Battier is a pipe dream. Somebody will offer more in a sign and trade or Lewis will just get bought as a free agent.
Possum - just focus on what some of the smarter posters have said in this thread. Adding Rashard Lewis to the equation changes things, but not by much. With or without Rashard, if you can get back more than you send out, it makes sense trading any player, including Tracy. Some of the trades you've thrown out would be a definite trade imo. Gasol, Miller & Stoudamire = I'd probably do it, but wouldn't mind if they passed. A lineup of Alston, Miller, Rashard, Gasol and Yao is pretty intimidating. I don't know how well Gasol fits with Yao. Miller can be a pretty productive player. Stoudamire's almost a negative now, but at least gives you another body and let's you make more trades with some of your backcourt players. Pierce, Jefferson & Telfair = if you can get past the injuries, of course. Pierce is basically the same as Tracy, not quite the playmaker, but pretty good. Al Jefferson was putting up 16 & 11 last year. He got injured but came back for the last 3 games of the season and put up 22 and 11. Telfair...who cares. You're lineup could be: Rafer, Pierce, Rashard, Jefferson, Yao. This has no bearing on reality, but if that happened, then your starting 5 would have averaged a combined 99 points based on 06/07 statistics. Randolph, Roy & Dickau = I'd probably pass. I understand the Zach Randolph fascination, but he is one player I really think wouldn't fit that well with Yao...maybe I'm wrong. Obviously Roy was ROY, but he doesn't replace T-Mac. Alston, Roy, Rashard, Randolp, Yao looks decent on paper, but I just somehow don't think it would mess that well. Billups & Hamilton = of course. Someone else mentioned this one, nad I see no way in hell Detroit would ever think about doing it, but you'd be smoking crack not to take that offer if you're Houston. 2 highly productive, playoff tested all-star players who both play over 70 games a season. Billups, Hamilton, Rashard, [PF], Yao. My guess is you'd probably find a few on here who woudl think about doing Tracy straight up for Chauncey, if the Rashard deal went down. Michael Redd, #6 pick, Earl Boykins = I just made this one up. Tough call there...would Milwaukee do it...doubtful? Anyway, I think your concept is a good basis for debate. Another thing to consider is the continual shuffle of players and coaches around Yao...but, on the other hand, I think 3 years is long enough to say "that ain't working". Also, one could consider moving Yao instead of Tracy, or both, but I don't think Yao is going anywhere. Here's an offseason that I'd like. 1. Battier, Sura, pick = Lewis 2. One of the definitive T-Mac deals. Lets go with the Boston deal proposed above. 3. Sign Mo Williams with the MLE. 4. Trade Rafer Alston & pick if necessary in a S&T for Luke Walton 5. Add Corliss Williamson with the veteran's exception 6. Re-sign Deke to small 1 year deal. Lineup PG: Mo Williams, V-Span, JL3, Head SG: Pierce, Head SF: Rashard, Walton, Pierce PF: Hayes, Howard, Williamson, Rashard, Walton C: Yao, Deke Line-up with the Grizzlies deal above PG: Mo Williams, Stoudamire, V-Span, JL3, Head SG: Miller, Head SF: Rashard, Walton, Miller PF: Gasol, Hayes, Williamson, Rashard, Howard C: Yao, Deke, Gasol Lineup with all of the above, but not trading Tracy PG: Mo Williams, V-Span, JL3, Head SG: T-Mac, Head SF: Rashard, Walton, McGrady PF: Hayes, Howard, Williamson, Rashard C: Yao, Deke ------------------------------------------------ Hey, they're all improvements on what we got now and all equally compelling, imo. The real problem is most of the above are pipedreams. - Rashard isn't coming. - Mo Williams will probably stay with Milwaukee for more then the MLE - Trading Tracy for a multiple player package where we get more value in return likely isn't happening - Alston won't be traded if we don't improve at the PG position otherwise - Maybe Deke will be resigned, though!
Interesting.... How about Battier,Sura & Pick for Lewis then T-mac for Sean May, Gerald Wallace and Raymond Felton (I mentioned the potential for trades with Charlotte in the sticky trades thread) Try and trade up to a higher pick somehow to draft bellineli (couple of spots...JLIII maybe?) Juwan/Rafer/Snyder for James/Hassell/McCants(to even the salaries) w/ Minnesota (ok...not quite sure about that one.... ) Re-sign Deke to a 1 year deal. We still have the MLE and LLE left (not decided what to do with it...More than likely throw the MLE to a FA C (are there any?)) Players/Positions possible rotations go like this PG Felton/James/Span/Head SG James/Head/Hassell/Belinelli SF Rashard/Wallace/Hassell/Novak PF Rashard/Wallace/Novak C Yao/Deke
if detroit let billups walk (a big IF), it means several things: 1: they need a pg cheaper than billups' askink price (alston) 2: they need a star to lead all those great role players (tmac) 3: they may also want to dump sheed or rip contracts alston+tmac+sura for billups+rip or sheed or tmac+alston for billups+dice
i'd still rather have T-Mac than any combination of two players from a single team listed above. especially considering that the second, lesser player is only marginally better than a free agent that a halfway competent GM could pick up with a full MLE contract. let's look at how Houston fares under such a trade: 1.) PG - Bibby (overrated) vs. Bibby SG - ? Snyder maybe vs. Kevin Martin SF - Rashard vs. Artest PF - SAR (MLE player) vs. SAR C- Yao vs. Brad Miller bench - Rafer, Head, Hayes, garbage vs. Kenny Thomas, Salmons, Corliss Williamson, garbage. Houston doesn't look much better if at all than the current Kings. 2.) PG - Duhon vs. Hinrich SG - Gordon vs. Gordon (T-Mac) SF - Rashard vs. Deng PF - PJ Brown vs. Nocioni C- Yao vs. Wallace bench - Rafer, Head, Hayes... vs. Duhon, Tyrus Thomas, JVG's boy Thabo Sefelosha, PJ Brown, Malik Allen, Adrian Griffin, their #9th pick this year how did Houston become worse than the Bulls? replace Gordon with T-Mac in the Bulls lineup and the Bulls are instant championship contenders. 3.) PG - Rafer (yay!) vs. Billups SG - Rip vs. Rip SF - Rashard vs. Prince PF- Hayes (yay!) vs. Sheed C - Yao vs. Webber bench - Prince, Head, Hayes... vs. Mcdyess, Mohammed, Hunter, Delfino yup, this team could definitely handle Lebron and co. 4.) PG - Jamal Tinsley vs. Jamal Tinsley SG- ? Snyder again vs. Dunleavy SF - Rashard vs. Granger PF- Troy Murphy vs. Troy Murphy C - Yao vs. J. O'neal bench - Rafer, Head... vs. Jeff Foster, Darrel Armstrong, Marquise Daniels definitely a step backwards when you can barely hang with a lottery team from the east. 5.) PG - Rafer! vs. Paul SG - Peja ?! vs. Desmond Mason SF - Rashard vs. Peja PF- Chandler ?! vs. West C - Yao vs. Chandler bench - Snyder, Head, Hayes... vs. Bobby Jackson, Rasual Butler, Devin Brown, Marc Jackson i know the tortoise beat the hare, but come on. 6.) PG - Rafer vs. Jarret Jack SG - Brandon Roy vs. TMac SF - Rashard vs. Darius Miles PF - Randolph vs. Lamarcus Aldridge C- Yao vs. Oden bench - Snyder, Head, Hayes... vs. Martell Webster, Dan Dickau, Raef Lafrentz, Jamal Magloire, Joel Prizbilla, Travis Outlaw, Ime Oduka, Fred Jones Houston's supposed to win a championship; not ensure that another team does. 7.) PG - Rafer vs. Marbury SG - Q Richardson vs. Jamal Crawford SF - Rashard vs. T-Mac PF - Hayes vs. David Lee C - Yao vs. Channing Frye bench - Curry (why?), Snyder, Head... vs. Steve Francis, Jared Jeffries, Nate Robinson, Jerome James, Cato, Malik Rose amazing what a superstar can do for a franchise (and i'm not talking about Stevie). 8.) PG - Rafer vs. Telfair SG - Gerald Green? vs. Szczerbiak SF - Pierce vs. T-Mac PF - Rashard? vs. Al Jefferson C- Yao vs. Olowokandi bench - Snyder, Head, Hayes... vs. Delonte West, Theo Ratliff, Rajon Rondo, Tony Allen, their #5 pick what did Rick Pitino say in his famous speech? Larry Bird's not walking through that door... but T-Mac is. 9.) PG - Damon Stoudamire vs. Chucky Atkins SG - Rudy Gay vs. Mike Miller SF - Rashard vs. T-Mac PF - Gasol vs. Hakim Warrick/Yi JianLian? C- Yao vs. Stromile Swift bench - who cares... finally a team that Houston can easily defeat! all your base are belong to us! and this is assuming that freaking Jerry West forgets how to do his job and gives up three starters including a franchise player and a potential one for just one. even so, Damon isn't that much better than JLIII, and Rudy Gay is still worse than Battier. Rashard is much worse than T-Mac and Gasol isn't the ideal PF to have alongside Yao. from all this i conclude that Rashard is completely overrated. he doesn't make his teamates (even Yao) any better. i would take one T-Mac over two Rashards any day of the week because you can't replace a superstar with anything less than another superstar. solid players and nearly all-stars are much easier to get in this league. what happened to L.A. after they traded Shaq, or Orlando after they traded T-Mac? what happened to Miami and Houston? if i were the GM, i would try to trade Rashard (mid-season is probably the only legal way) for a near all-star level PF or PG and just be done with it. that should be enough to get the job done. the rest is coaching, chemistry and hard work and luck as well.
I see what your saying now, but I also get the feeling your overrating Tmacs trade value. Your definately not getting any of those guys for Tmac PS You cant look at per game stats and think you can compensate with similar per game stats. Its mostly about per minute stats and even then its not entirely logical.
I agree with everything you have said. Do I think its going to happen? NO! Do I want it to happen? I could live with it if we got the right players. Look I really like TMac and hope he does stay and take us to the promiss land. I just dont know if keeping him or trading him now while his value is at its peak is the best course of action to take at this point. I started this thread hoping to have some intelligent debate from both sides of the coin. I did and I appreciate all who had intelligent well thought out responses. Thats why I come here.
