You were doing so well I was even agreeing with you to a point and then you go and say something stupid like it's "the same stuff with VSpan". That's just not true and it makes everything else you say sound biased and ignorant. You come off as another pouting JVG lover who is upset that his man got axed. Deal with it... Some of it is Bonzi's fault, but some of it is JVG's stubborness. You could see Bonzi trying to kiss his coaches ass in the media. He understood if he wanted to play after his fallen out he would have to do as much. In his exact words he said, "I am here to help the team. Whatever the coach wants me to do"... And Van Gundy was saying this is his last chance. But then they had another falling out somewhere along the way and suffice it to say these were irreconciliable differences. Bonzi is a bit of a headcase and everyone knew that going in but VSpan is not the same stuff at all. You are dead wrong, the character issues where never there. In fact I would go on to say he may have one of the stronger characters on the team. He was told coming in they really needed him and in reality Van Gundy never wanted him. He was very disappointed and vocalized it not attacking his coach but only speaking the truth. Yes it probably wasn't the wisest decision but it was made more out of naivete than anything. After that he shut up but Van Gundy didn't. Van Gundy had to try to make him look bad in the media. Vspan went up to his boss in good faith and tried to explain to him the role he had on his Greece team and that he is not and never has been a spot up shooter. Van Gundy instead of taking that as a genuine reaching out by one of his players, which by the way I consider Vspan's actions a very mature display of character, he decided to take Vspan's confidentiial words and spin them around in the media. "Vassilis says he is Tmac in Greece". Vspan has never thought he was as good as Tmac he only stated he had the same role as Tmac in Greece which was absolutely the truth. But Van Gundy saw this as a perfect opportunity to do some damage to this media darling by trying to make him look like a primadonna joke. Vspan's image may have suffered but IMO JVG's image suffered even more. His action's where that of a young teenager wanting to trash another to make himself look better. He clearly made this personal and by doing lost any chance of getting anything out of the kid. It became more apparent than ever that Van Gundy is a small man in both stature and mind. In the end Van Gundy's petty behaviour and poor communication skills got him fired more than anything.
Thanks DD, it just makes sense to me. Unfortunately a lot of people on this board don't agree with us.
True visionaries are rarely appreciated when they first announce their visions. They will come around next year, when the play of the team is improved and players they wrote off as worthless are contributing. Being a trend setter is never easy...... All kidding aside, I think a large majority of posters do agree, but don't post about it. You can see that in the poll threads asking if JVG should have been fired or kept. 73+ percent agreed he should be fired But the vocal minority are relentless.......something I am completly familiar with..... DD
Personally, I think both of them got treated pretty badly, but Bonzi does kind of deserve it. I don't think Bonzi wanted to fit with this type of team, and at the same time Gundy didn't want him. It was mutually unbeneficial. Vspan however, just got shafted.
I am not another pouting JVG lover, nor biased, ignorant or stupid, although I appreciate you at least saying "sound" biased and ignorant, but it's still very condescending, which I don't deserve. For someone who complains that JVG is so insensitive to others, you certainly don't practice what you preach. Geez. You guys stir up so much venom in this BBS with your accusations and extreme judgemental and often unsubstantiated statements, and wonder why people respond, and call you names, and make JVG over love or VSpan over hate comments, which are just as innacurate, with either side killing honest debate of differing viewpoints. Then, you call them out for calling you names. Don't you guys realize you are causing this turmoil here? This type of post is exactly what has created the anger and divided camp on this BBS. The biggest reason you haven't gotten the flack, like DD, is because you at least don't post it over and over and over. That doesn't mean that your posts haven't been offensive at times. JVG is not a perfect coach. From the moment he came, I seriously wondered if he could lead us all the way to the championship. I haven't changed in that concern. I had wondered if once JVG instilled professionalsm and defense into this team, that Rudy would come back, and lead them to the promised land. Alas, his cancer won't allow that, and his time has passed, perhaps as early as the last championship, but certainly it has now. I did really like Rudy. I don't know that I ever really liked JVG, but what he did this year, dig gain my respect, and grew to value his straight up honesty, however dour it came across. This team does not have leaders. JVG was not the leader, at least during these playoffs. I wonder, if Les didn't sabatauge that, letting rumors come out that JVG was on his way out. The players have stated in interviews that they had heard that during the playoffs. For some reason, the players didn't step up for their coach, like they did throughout the year. That spoke volumes. I think they were dispirited, as perhaps was the coach, but he may also have lost them, like he did Francis and Mobely. I believe that JVG might drill the same thing over and over, until his players tune him out. He wasn't a player, and that really makes a difference as a coach. A lot of what he says is theory to him, and so I don't know if he has the exact touch he needs with them. I'm not sure JVG knows how to peak his team, which Rudy was brilliant at. It's just pushing all the time, and talented people rise and fall, kicking in the adrenalin to get into a zone, and can't do that all the time as he demands, in his words, to be championship caliber. You have to choose when to push, and the playoffs is when. He used it to get us home court, but then it seemed like we were out of gas to use HCA. It didn't seem like they had anything left for the playoffs. On the other hand, JVG is/was brilliant. His players, his peers, those who worked with him day by day, says he's the best, if not top 5 this year. He was in the top 5 voting by his peers as the best coach this year. They see him day after day with far more basketball knowledge than you or I. There's no doubt he did a brilliant job this year, and so some of the comments attacking him so viciously have seemed innapropriate and killing effective discussion. As far as VSpan, he clearly listened to people filling his head with how great he was. From what I've read, he's also jumped in and done hard work, and gotten better, to his credit. We need guys who get better every game, every summer, every year, like Yao, TMac, Battier, and Hayes. We don't need guys who act spoiled with big heads. Was there a misunderstanding between VSpan, CD and JVG? Probably, and there were probably 3 or 4 sides to that story, with very different understandings. We need bulldogs players to surround TMac and Yao, like VSpan, but not like the VSpan, when he listened to people who fed his ego and sulked and undermined his coach, rather than professional reality, hard work, a team spirit, demonstrating excellence by what he does, not by what he's done in one big game, but busting in the next, resting on his laurels, acting like a victim. Yao got a lot of support by the team, Team Yao, translator, trainers, and family. It's too bad VSpan didn't get that kind of support, which might be the real solution. I hope the management does more to facilitate that transition. I hope VSpan stays, is a leader, but shows humility more like Mario did with Dream and Clyde.
Sherlock, Do you think V-Span got a fair shake from JVG? I think that is the crux of the argument, some people think he did, and some of us don't.... What do you think? DD
I apologize for the offensiveness in my post, Sherlock. I have always considered you one of the better posters on this board and as is evident by your last post you are certainly intelligent. I know there are many here who are disappointed in the JVG firing. And I have tried to limit my comments on this matter because I do not see the benefit of rehashing old news. I also remember how I felt when Rudy retired. And how many on this board were unsympathetic to those of us who felt he was forced out. I will be the first to say JVG is a bright coach albeit IMO not a genius. Of course I am only a laymen and certainly no professional and in all likelihood JVG has forgotten more than I know. So I certainly could be wrong and he may be every bit the genius that you and others proclaim. But his basketball mind has never been my issue with him. (regardless of my Van Dummy comments). My problem has always been in the handling of the team. Just as the board is split on him it seems also his own team is this way as well. Everyone talks of his strong discipline skills. What I saw was a coach who if he didn’t like you rather than try to work with you he did his best to get rid of you. If you didn’t follow his way you were out the door. Again I don’t want to go into details because it serves no real purpose. But my point is his handling of Vspan was just another example of that. He could have been the bigger man but in stead chose to create an unnecessary rift IMO. My father use to say there are more ways than 1 to skin a cat and on this board I heard the extension, and the cats hate them all. And that’s the question, did he really need to skin all those cats. Did he really need to handle the Vspan situation the way he did. The kid did not seem to be a malcontent. I haven’t read or seen anything to make me think otherwise. He just seemed like a kid in a new environment with high dreams dealing with some natural frustrations. All of this could have been nipped in the bud when Vspan walked in his office and explained he didn’t feel Van Gundy knew the type of player he was. Van Gundy could have set him down and explained his plans for him or that he had no plans for him. He could have given him a little elderly guidance and told him to keep his chin up he has a future here. But of course that is not Van Gundy’s style and he will never be accused of being a father figure and perhaps that is another part of his downfall. Still mines is only one opinion and certainly your opinion could be the accurate one. But perhaps in the end the answer is somewhere in the middle. Peace Out Bro.
When you have the worst plus minus rating of all of the guards on the team (and only Novak, who not coincidentally also did not get much run, was worse among non-guards), shoot terribly from the field and like an unskilled amateur from the arc, have a unitary assist to turnover ratio, foul like you think the refs have been paid off, and then mouth off to the coach that he is using you wrong and you were promised that you would get more PT, then being benched isn't getting shafted. It is simply the expected response. He didn't get shafted any more than Wayne Simien, Darrick Martin, CJ Miles, Eric Williams, or Eric Piatkowski did. The bottom line is, when you are given time, you have to produce. V-SPAN produced missed shots and turnovers, so he was given time on the bench. You know you suck when Rafer Alston is playing 40+ mpg in front of you. Hopefully he works hard in the offseason on the myriad weaknesses in his game and can be a contributer as the backup PG next season. I am not encouraged by his pouting and thoughts of returning to the small pond where he was able to be a reasonably big fish, but I still have hope for him.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4839496.html Still undecided As much as Bonzi Wells has said about his preference to return to the Rockets, he has not said that he would not opt out of his contract, as he always had planned. Wells' agent, Billy Duffy, said he and Wells have not reached a decision about whether Wells will become a free agent, but would meet with Rockets officials at the NBA predraft camp beginning Tuesday in Orlando to see what the team has in mind. Unless he is determined to be back with the Rockets, there seems little for Wells to lose financially in becoming a free agent. The second year of his contract that he never expected to consider is worth $2.3 million. Duffy, who was hired after most of last summer's options dried up, never got a chance to find Wells a good fit and good contract. Even coming off a poor season, Wells would seem certain to find at least as good a deal as he has in his Rockets contract. Duffy can be sure how new Rockets coach Rick Adelman feels about bringing Wells back; he will have to find out where another free agent, Chuck Hayes, fits. Adelman said he would seek more offensive versatility, which does not sound like Hayes. But if he finds it, it might allow Hayes to come back to do what he does. "Chuck is the kind of guy any coach wants around, either as a starter or off the bench," Duffy said. "He's a low-maintenance, high-energy guy and an overachiever." But with both, it might depend what the Rockets can get done before dealing with their own free agents, that determines what they can bring back.
he's probably going after our MLE. if that's the case, screw him. that money would be better spent elsewhere. one thing is almost guaranteed. he won't get a long contract no matter who signs him. he messed his chance for that.
Amazing how this guy can say so much with a donut in his mouth.....we have got to get this guy back on our team!
