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(sportime.gr) V-Span to discuss future with Morey today

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by alex_jr, May 9, 2007.

  1. Doctor Robert

    Doctor Robert Member

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    We need more of a lot of things... if all you do is miss 3-pointers and you won't try anything else, then yes, in a way you need better shooters. You could also try to score in different ways, and as you mentioned, Vasilis is a scorer.

    Everyone was also having a fit because McGrady is the only person who can make plays. I think playmaking is extremely important.
     
  2. Doctor Robert

    Doctor Robert Member

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    His situation is different than most. He is trying to adjust from international play to NBA, which requires some time. I don't think he got the necessary time.
     
  3. rhino17

    rhino17 Member

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    Excellent points. i think more time with the starters (or at least no only the end of the bench) would cut down on some of his TOs. A lot of guys he played with just couldnt handle his passes. And I really dont mind his shooting percentage because he does not shoot that often, like Rafer. he was taken out of his game last year and forced to play out of his position. He usually only shoots higher percentage shots in the paint, when he drives, that is when he is most effective. If a coach would all ow him to play to his strengths, he could contribute next season.
     
  4. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    The lineup he played the most time with this year was Head-Battier-Howard-Yao - and they were pretty ineffective.
     
  5. alex_jr

    alex_jr Member

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    Yes true...But you also have to admit that it doesnt quite balance out in the sense that other guards have less of TOs like those (good passes that weren't expected) than Span has due to his limited time on the floor. Also they have less (most of them have none) of those ballhandling TOs that span made early one but figured out completely later on...

    I'm just pointing out that few minutes on the floor and especially not with starters skew his Assist-to-TO ratio in a negative way...

    Which you also admitted is what counts and not just the turnovers themselves.

    You point at his previous seasons but the truth is he had a GOOD assist-to-to ratio even in PAO... PAO is a top-level euroleague team that has won the euroleague trophy 4 times in the last 10 years... Do you really think theyd be playing him if his assist-to-to ratio wasn't that high?

    I think you fail to understand that assists are measured differently in europe....You just saw the numbers and thought it didnt look good in NBA terms

    The all-time leader in assists in the euroleague and possibly the top euroleague player right now, averaged 5.4 assists per game this last season.. Can you see how different than the NBA that is? That's why his euroleague ratio was considered good...

    Anyway...this is getting too lengthy ...

    I'm not on some kind of mission to disagree with you everytime you say somethign bad about Span... I too have agreed that his shooting hasn't been great this year...

    It's just that me and a few others believe he didn't get enough time on the floor for people to make a good judgement of what he can do...

    You claim that he was just as bad in previous years <= THAT's what I disagree with....Cause it simply isnt true
     
  6. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    He wasn't just as bad, but he wasn't especially good about not turning it over. 62 TO's and 72 Assists last year in euroleague in just 23 games, avergaing 29 minutes a game. If he's playing limited minutes and turning the ball over at that rate with the Rockets he'd better start shooting a lot better.
     
  7. alex_jr

    alex_jr Member

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    Make your mind up... Is it the turnovers you mind or the Assist ratio? If it's the turnovers, than fine . I cant say anything about that. We just think different things are important...

    If it's the assist ratio than how hard is it to understand that those are EUROLEAGUE assists.. If i had to hazard a guess I'd say that youre looking at at least a 2-2.5 multiplier to turn them into NBA assists
     
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    It's turnovers and ratio - high turnovers are acceptable (a la Nash) if the player creates a lot of points, either for himself or others.

    Spanoulis doesn't have that luxury because he hasn't really shown he can do either at this level - and anyway if papaloukas is able to garner a 2-1 assist turnover ratio in euroleague why can't spanoulis?
     
  9. alex_jr

    alex_jr Member

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    That argument makes as much sense as: why can't every other PG in the NBA be like Nash?

    I never said he's the best PG there is.... But he does create a lot of points both from himself and for others...
     
  10. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Well you brought up Nash, anyway I'm not holding spanoulis to nash's level. I wish he could be like Nash but Nash is wonderful natural shooter and always has been, someting Spanoulis just does not do. If Spanoulis could even reach Rafer levels he'd deserve playing time but he is far below even that in almost every relevant category.
     
  11. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Member

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    Turnovers have been the Rockets top concern about him.

    See this article from 2005 http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2005_3870777 (requires Chronicle archive access):

    To pretend like the turnovers weren't an issue and aren't an issue is to be more than a little blindfolded.
     
  12. Doctor Robert

    Doctor Robert Member

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    We've been talking about Vasilis' Greek stats since he hasn't played enough here.

    Alston FG% - 37.5%
    Spanoulis FG% - 61.7%

    Let's spot Rafer 20%...

    Alston FG% - 57.5%
    Spanoulis FG% - 61.7%
     
  13. Doctor Robert

    Doctor Robert Member

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    I can't find TO stats for Vasilis other than last year. I don't know what they were when that statement was made, and if he improved them or not. I don't know what the goal was for him. I don't know how he would fair if he received some reasonable playing time on the Rockets.
     
  14. alex_jr

    alex_jr Member

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    I brought up Nash as an example as to how high TOs are a result of the way he plays but his assist-to-to ratio at least in previous years made up for it.... No it wasnt' NASH-like but it was still decent...

    As far as his shooting is concerend,I've agreed with you before. He did not shoot well this year. Im surprised about that cause he was a far better shooter before. So it probably has sth to do with the shots he takes....
     
  15. alex_jr

    alex_jr Member

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    He avged 3.5 TOs in 2004/2005.... 2.7 in 2005-2006
     
  16. Pizza_Da_Hut

    Pizza_Da_Hut I put on pants for this?

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    That stat has to be skewed.
     
  17. alex_jr

    alex_jr Member

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    Why must it?

    It's the ULEB cup 2004-2005 stats....
     
  18. Old Man Rock

    Old Man Rock Contributing Member

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    Hell must have Frozen Over! The Great Sam Fisher finally acknowledged once that this particular BS coming out of his mouth is his opinion.
     
  19. bbjai

    bbjai Member

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    I think that its important to consider Vspan's stats in comparison to say someone like Tony Parker before he made the transition.

    I mean its well documented he wasn't making stellar figures like Ginobilli or Parker were.
     
  20. alex_jr

    alex_jr Member

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    Do you mean Span's pre-NBA stats vs Manu and Parker's pre-nba stats?

    In that case , what is well documented?

    Span had better shooting averages than Manu, more fouls gained and 0.1 assists more for 0.3 TO more on average

    Hardly any difference....

    I can't find Parker's stats because he never played in the euroleague...he pretty much went straight to the NBA.... And I can find stats with the french NT but nothing pre-NBA
     

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