the Mavs would have still lost and hurt their confidence even more. How else can you explain him playing Dirk and others the next day against the Sonics?
No it does not. It's a flawed argument and it got exposed this playoffs. Let's start with Mac. This is pretty much the Tmac you will have to get used to. His back will always be a concern and he has lost some of his athleticism. He might not be the MVP or the best player on the planet but he will still be 1 of the top 10 players in the league and arguably the top 3 at is position. Pair that up with another one of the top players in the league in Yao and we are still in a damn good position. Neither might be MVP but we will still have 2 of the best players in the league, and an inside/outside presence which most teams would gladly build their team around with. Good start but that is only half the work. The other half involves COMPLETING the team around them. What we have seen so far is that they need HELP. Your answer is...Well they didn't play as the best players, If they had played as the best players we could win. Ok, so we just found out that they have flaws. They might not always be the best players on the court. What's your solution then? Trade them and force yourself to get the MVP? Just wait for them to turn into MVP? Or.... How about getting some help for them? Juan, Luther, Hayes, Rafer were EXPOSED. I will give you an example again for reference. Shaq + Kobe + Role players = 3 championships. Shaq + Kobe - Role players = Loss at hands of Detroit Yao + Tmac < Shaq + Kobe, so it would only make sense that they would need even more help in a tougher league. It's still mind boggling that you think it is not a big deal that Tmac and Yao are not getting any help on the court. PS. 4 points loss in the first round. Hardly something to be proud of when you are trying to win a championship. This would have been a lot uglier if Rockets didnt have homecourt. They might have actually overachieved against a very good Jazz team. The entire series jazz played like a team. We looked disjointed and relied heavily on our stars. Let's get a team here please. This 2 vs. 5 is taking a toll on our stars. I warned you about your optimism around this flawed team. Don't count your eggs before the Chickens have sex.
You are preaching to the choir. Here is the bottom line, Yao and T-mac didn't play their best, partly due to the way they were used by JVG, and partly on their own. The 2 superstars are not the problem. We have 2 great players, 1 OK player in Shane and the rest is absolute undersized 1 dimensional scrubs. Look at other teams, they have multiple weapons and good players, we have 2. Utah - Boozer is awesome, Deron is very good and getting better, Okur is an all-star, Kirilenko is a very good all around player.Harpring and Giricek are great on the bench. They have several very good players, we have 2. Phoenix - Nash, Stoudemire, Barbosa, Marion, Diaw...it goes on. They have 4 awesome players and solid role players like Raja, Kurt Thomas, Diaw. San Antonio - Duncan, Parker, Manu, Finley, Horry, Brent Barry Dallas - Dirk, Jason Terry, Josjh Howard, Stackhouse, ... Chicago - Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Nocioni Detroit - Billups, Hamilton, Prince, Wallace, McDyess, Webber We have mcgrady and yao, thats it, and yao is completely one dimensional. We need more talent and a better coach.
My argument got exposed as correct. If you are arguging that I'm wrong, then I think you are missing my point. If this is the best TMac can ever do, then we'll need to rely more on Yao. Unfortunately, I don't know that Yao has it in him to close out games. Yao is great for the first 3 quarters but I don't know if he is a "2 minutes is left and we're down by one" kinda guy. We won't win a championship if this is the best our two guys can do ...regardless of the bench. His back and athleticism wasn't an issue in this series. But TMac's heart WAS an issue. That's not enough. We're in good position but I'm certain we'll never win a championship until Yao and/or TMac learn how to play like an MVP. ...and even w/ half the work, we had a chance to win this series and we couldn't get it done because of TMac's disappearing act. Hence my position that the bench is less relevant than having star players that play like stars. ...and if that remains to be true, we'll never win a championship. Frankly, Boozer was the best player on the court in this series ...and they won. End of story. Obviously, you always look to improve your roster. Obviously, we could get much better at PG and PF. But all those things are easier said than done. I never said I didn't think it was a big deal. I said I think we can still win big with Juwan and Rafer. BIG DIFFERENCE! Who's proud? You're the only one flaunting the "I told you so" threads. My optimisim was DEAD on. If TMac and/or Yao play like MVP's, then we'll win. They didn't ...and we lost by 4. I hear your point. You feel role players are what make championships ...I just happen to disagree with you. It's perfectly okay for us to have differing opinions. But I'll point out to you again that there has only been one championship team in modern NBA history that hasn't had an MVP caliber player on the team. So again, fill in as many role players as you like, but if your star players don't play like stars then the role players are irrelevant.
Great post! My opinion of the whole thing is our new GM gave JVG enough rope to hang himself and Jeff's didn't disappoint. Now the team is in a state of turmoil because they've lost a lot of time. We have no promising young players that we know of, thanks to Mr. Van Gundy, and we have two older players to build around in Yao and T-mac. This team has been set back a few years to say the least, but if we don't cut JVG loose and start heading in the right direction we will far even further behind in our desire to see a NBA in Houston again.
WTF is your problem being a Chinese? Are you a racist?? If I were a Chinese, would I feel sorry just because you are such an idiot AND a Chinese? No!!
Considering how pathetic our bench is/was, we have no where to go but up if we get a decent bench. Now you are saying....well our stars are not good enough....regardless of the bench we are doomed. All of a sudden you turn into such a pessimist when it comes to our stars yet when it comes our bench, despite it getting crushed, you remain optimistic that it is hardly the problem. Huh? Basketball is a 5 on 5 game. Not 2 on 5. We improve our overall talent level and we will improve, regardless of what you think. His heart has always been an issue. Deal with it. And thus the call for pitbull and hard nosed, mentally tough role players surrounding Yao/Tmac. Surround them with pu$$ in boots like Rafer, Juan, and Luther and you amplify the problem. Surround them with mentally tough role players like Fisher, Harpring, Horry, and Fox, and you mask their weaknesses. This was not the same Tmac that has opened every other playoff series prior to this one. You can deny it all you want but most people here have noticed (hardcore Tmac fans themselves) that he has lost a step. That doesn't mean his output has to be compromised. He can still play smart and be very effective. He still needs help. We wont win a championship until we surround them with a team no matter how good they play. Jordan did not win until he had Pippen, Harper, Rodman, Grant, Armstrong, Cartwright etc. etc. Once he had a team built around him, he started winning. Jordan did not win in 95 playoffs because he had no PF on the team to rebound and defend. Next year he got Rodman to play the role and he went on a streak again. Hakeem did not win until he got players like Sam, Horry, Elie, Thorpe, Drexler etc etc. He needed role players who were effective. Isiah Thomas did not without help of Laimbeer, Vinny Johnson, Rodman, Joe Dumars.... All these stars have played other seasons/playoffs as MVP too, but when they didnt get help, they didnt win. I have already given the Shaq + Kobe example. Shaq played as the MVP in the finals and still lost to Pistons because of missing role players. With a bench this series would have been over long ago. If the bench had even remotely showed up, and Tmac/Yao gotten any help, there wouldn't be a Game 7. End of story. Umm yeah, you had me there. Gundy was exposed in covering Boozer. Might wanna check out Fran's latest blog. We made Boozer look unstoppable because of JVG's pathetic defensive strategy to cover him. When you keep sticking a slow footed 7-6 guy on a mobile PF that's what you get. MISMATCH. No adjustment made by Gundy. Gundy skooled. Advantage Sloan. If Juan could play an ounce of defense, Boozer would not be such a killer to us. It is our scrub PF's fault that he could not cover other team's PF. Yao had to play for himself and Juan. He was carrying the load for 2 people. Tmac was carrying the load for 2 more. Deron Willams did not have to worry about stopping Tmac. His role players were taking that responsibility. Boozer did not have responsibility to cover Yao. His teamamtes were doing it for him. Yao was asked to score/create on half the possesions AND defend their best post player, who does not even play the same position. Tmac was asked to score/create on the other half and play defense on their most physical swingman. In the end, Boozer came out looking good because he knew no one on Rockets could guard him one on one and JVG was not even coming at him with help defense. While on the other end he did not have to spend an ounce of energy guarding offensive scrubs like Juan and Hayes. Now that is an understatement. Yes I can see that when it comes to Rockets management/Gundy. Point well taken. No we wont. not with Juan and Rafer playing major roles on this team. Dude, this is what you are doing. You are putting the entire pressure and burden on two players. Your theory: If Tmac and Yao play like MVPs, we will win, even if we have such liabilities as Rafer and Juan on the team. This is a cop out. It's been 4 years now with this combo and it is OBVIOUS they need help. But the Rockets management and Gundy has failed. Let's stop wasting our time beating around the bushes and get our stars some help please. You were the one going around flaunting only 4 point loss. Link me the "I told you so" threads you talk about. If this one is the best you can do, it would still count as a "thread". I will be honest though...I am very tempted to start one on Juan... Cant blame me. If Tmac/Yao play like MVP's we will win IF they are supported with functional role players. Tmac/Yao AND good role players. Not one or the other. BOTH. Again, if we had even half way decent bench, this series would not even have gone 7 and come to 4 points difference. We didnt have a bench and we were lucky to have gone 7 games. No I didn't. Nice attempt at putting words in my mouth. I said, you surround stars with good role players/bench and you have a contender. Yao/Tmac are good enough combo to build a team around even if they are not MVPs. Get Tmac a third scorer to work with. Get Yao a PF to play with. Shaq used to complain about not having to play with a real PF. He was much more dominant that Yao. What makes you think Yao can play without one? This gimmick Juan/Hayes combo is not going to work. I dont have a problem with that either. I have always said that as long as this team relies on Juan to make any kind of significant contributions, it's not going anywhere. I will stick to it. I will even add Rafer to the mix. I haven't seen anything so far to change my opinion. Based on what I have seen, my opinion has only been reaffirmed. There goes your argument that this team cant win unless Yao/Tmac play as MVPs. If Billups and Wallace can win with good role players playing besides them, what makes Yao/Tmac any different? No they are not.
Krosfyah you are misguided. I can't think of a single championship team that didn't have at least some degree of depth. Dude, our 3d best player is Shane Battier and our 3d scoring option has the worst fg% in league history.
This has to be one of the most stupid posts I have read. Why do you have to feel and say sorry for Yao? Why do you feel responsible for his performance? So if Yao wins a champsionship for the Rockets in the future, do you expect me to say thank you to you? Leave the race issue and the stereotyping out of it.
HISTORY LESSON. CHAMPIONSHIP ROLE PLAYERS. Maxwell - outstanding defender, very quick, streak shooter, PROVEN SCORER Kenny Smith -outstanding shooter, very low turnovers, great pick/roll Mario Elie -outstanding defender, very strong, versatile can play 3 or 2, great shooter Otis Thorpe -solid low post threat, very high % shots, solid rebounder and defender, great pick and roll player Sam Cassell -excellent mid range shooter, excellent slasher, low turnovers Robert Horry -shot blocker, quick hands for steals, versatile can play 3 or 4, can also shoot 3 pointers, athletic Carl Herrera - strong low post player, good rebounder ---------- NOTE HOW ALL PLAYERS HAVE DIFFERENT SKILLS. NOT ALL THE SAME TYPE OF PLAYER.
It is Coach's responsibility to bring superstar players play like MVPs. If the coach forced his players, super or not, play his losing "system" in playoffs, that's Coach's fault, PERIOD.
The failure of the Rockets in the play-offs is not JVG's fault. The roster is absolutely atrocious. Other than Yao and T-Mac there is no talent. As I've said before, if it weren't for JVG's great job of turning this crappy roster into a 50+ win team then nobody would have had high expectations. Give me another team with equal or lesser talent that performed as well.
Again, who is responsible for bringing these players here? He built his bed with players like Rafer, Juan, Hayes, Luther. He ended up sleeping on it with them.
Has anybody watched the Jazz vs Warrior game tonight? Sloan played the rookie-Dee Brown 12 minutes to score 6 points and finally save Jazz's game. Basically, Dee Brown is a player playing 1.5 min totally in the series with Rockets in garbage time. If the Jazz were caoched by the fxxxing JVG, the Warriors would have taken the home court advantage out of Jazz's hand. Fire JVG!!!
That's probably the only thing you wrote that I agree with. JVG's coaching and defense fooled us to believe that we're a contender despite: - The fact that 6'6" Chuck freaking Hayes was our starting PF. Yao takes all the slack because Boozer "dominated" him. The reality is if we had a big PF that could defend and rebound, he would be assigned to guard Boozer, not Yao. - Having a grand total of one playmaker (T-Mac) on our team. We had a total of one player that could create a shot for himself. - Forcing Alston, a mediocre shooter to expand his role and take more shots. We had nobody to help out Rafer at the PG or SG spot. Because of that, Rafer was expected to play PG and SG. Rafer, the PG is a great PG. Rafer, the SG is one of the worst SG's of all-time. - The injuries to our stars. Even in the playoffs, Yao was still dealing with the leg/knee injury, a dislocated finger, and a really messed up big toe. Despite all this (and more that I did not list), JVG fooled you to believe that we were an elite team because of the team defense and chemistry he installed. He fooled you 2 years ago too. The discipline and defense allowed us to win so many games despite the injuries. We beat pretty much every team that was inferior to us. Our record vs the East has been ridiculous in JVG's tenure here. However, our record against teams in the West is pretty mediocre. We can't beat those teams because they're flat out better than us. More talented, faster, athletic, and deeper. The Western Conference is loaded with star PF's, while PF happens to be our weakest position. Despite that huge PF weakness and other flaws, he fooled you to believe that we could go deep into the playoffs. Yet ironically, we almost did. That tells you how good of a coach JVG is. I said it two years ago against Dallas and that statement applies again against Utah... the fact that we could take a team that was more talented, deeper, and athletic than us to 7 games shows how good of a coach JVG is. And now many of you are now asking for his head...
The four players you mentioned above are not that bad. They all contributed to this team making the playoffs in some way. Our problem was not having enough depth and diversity of skills (pretty much the opposite of Utah). Rafer is a solid PG. No way he should be playing 40+ minutes a game. We had no one to help him. Howard and Hayes are both serviceable and give us different needs, but neither should be starting. We had no one else to help them, so they got more time than they deserved. Head gave us shooting but was a liability on defense and can't play PG. He did pretty much what I expected him to do. He was just backing up T-Mac, so of course he didn't have to play much. We have too many one-dimensional players. Yet, JVG was able to tinker with these dimensions to form a solid team with great team defense and chemistry. This was one hell of a coaching job. He deserves an extension. Give him some real talent and some multi-dimensional players and we can actually get out of the first round.
Dead on. Seriously our third scoring option has the worst fg% in league history. Well, not quite, but you get the point. I'd also like to say that we didn't lose because of lack of heart from Tmac and/or Yao. Those guys played their butts off and Tmac even had a great series despite us losing. We are the slowest, most unathletic team in the league and to me that's the biggest problem.
