Democratic Party Leader Says to Troops: You Lost the War

And here's Gen. Tony McPeak, who served on the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the first Gulf War

“Even if we had a million men to go in, it’s too late now,” says retired four-star Gen. Tony McPeak, who served on the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the Gulf War. “Humpty Dumpty can’t be put back together again.“

http://thinkprogress.org/

 

And here's Retired Gen. Wiliam Odom, head of Army intelligence and director of the National Security Agency under Ronald Reagan


The Mission Can't Be Accomplished -- It's Time for a New Strategy

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/09/AR2007020901917_pf.html

 

good finds mark

im sure we can expect outrage from tradertexx over these libpigs and their treasonous, terror-supporting comments.

why do these pigs hate america?

 

haha

comparing hitler times to Iraq war

 

Why the hell do people use this term?

 

because fox news tells us to!

it seems kind of redundant to me - isnt setting off a bomb, by nature, an attempt to engage in the act of "homicide". it is the very fact that these freaks are willing to commit suicide, which should give it special distinction (suicide bomber).

they didnt call the japaneese kamikazee pilots "homicide" bombers, did they?

 

I said Iraq was a lost cause before we invaded. Someone should have sent the memo to Bush.

 

Jorge,

I am with you that telling the troops that the war is lost is a horrible thing to do. But to liken Iraq to Nazi Germany is just silly.

The last I saw, Iraq hadn't taken over Poland, slaughtered all the Jews and then occupied France.

In fact, even after all that happened, we did not get involved in WW2 until the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. Don't reply with 911. There is NO EVIDENCE that the Iraqui government had anything to do with it.

 

I see nothing wrong with retreating, regrouping and mobilizing in the event of a real threat.

We're wasting lives, money, global security and credibility, while giving the terrorists a training simulator for new recruits.

 

50% of the troops who have actually served over there say it cant be won.

 

That's great and all, but when you have our political leaders saying that, then that will effect the troops that are there now.

 

what about all the generals who have said it?

 

Well, it shouldn't. The Founding Fathers put the military under civilian control and divided the responsibilities for the military between two branches. If you're in the US military, you accept this and should know it's not always going to be pretty. There are inherent conflicts intentionally put there by the Founders. That the conflicts are escalated when the two branches don't agree on a course of action should be no surprise to anyone. It's a strength, a check, a balance. And really, what's more American than to disagree?

The conflating of patriotism/welfare of the troops with the actions and policies of this administration is a much greater danger to the troops then anything said in a political debate about the war. If criticizing the policy, if questioning command decisions, if telling the truth about actions becomes prohibited because it could hurt the troops, then we're not the America I know.

 

rimmy...easy buddy.

Methinks you misunderstand my point. I never meant to suggest that these people not disagree. There is a vast difference between disagreement between decisionmakers and publicly telling the troops that they cannot accomplish the mission. Much of what goes on in Washington is behind closed doors, but sending a message to troops that says "you're screwed" must be the one thing done publicly? Odd.

Regardless of what the conflict is, our political leaders putting up a united front while debating privately amongst themselves what course of action to take is something we have been very bad at from Korea to the present conflict.

 

If your goal is that one day your kid is the Chief Justice and I tell you that their chances of getting on the Supreme Court are infintesimal and the possibility of them being the Chief Justice is nothing short of impossible... so you'd better guide them towards a career course that suits their talent and abilities and does not rely on fantasies... that there are career choices for your kid that will allow them to accomplish many great things even though they are not on the Supreme Court or Chief Justice... then I've told you essentially what Reid told Bush about the troops.

Through no fault of their own have they been put in a horrible situation where it will literally take multiple miracles for them to succeed (as if we have a realistic definition of success: not leaving is not exactly a winning strategy)... and betting on miracles may work for Disney, but it's a crappy way to run a country and a war.

Also, Reid didn't send the message to the troops, regardless of what the Right wants to think or pretend. That was aimed directly at Bush and his failures at the strategic level, not the folks in the field. Again, the conflation of policy (or lack thereof) and troop welfare.

Finally, I don't much like a united front while decisions get made in the backroom. That's what administrations always want so that they can control the facts and the message. The messier, the better for a democracy.

 

This is where we disagree. I do not want us to give off the impression that we are spinning out of control. Other nations get the idea.

I'm not saying that I see no virtue in your position. After weighing the pros and cons, I just disagree. Not a big deal.

 

this is the worst post i've ever read.

edit:

what are the odds that TJ comes back in this thread?

 

Jorge, Basso and even Hayes don't get it. It is a real war. It is not primarily won or lost on bumper stickers or in discussions or even the media.

It is our increasinlgy fewer Iraqi allies and our "volunteer" army of working class folks against the growing majority of Iraqis We can keep them at bay with intense conventional boming or "win" with nukes.

They have the advantage of fighting on their own soil. Sort of like the Green Mountain Boys against the Red Coats of King George. They use car bombs and other tactics which are not "kosher". Just like our side used unconventional tactics against King George's troops. Another similarly is that King George used Hessian mercenaries. President George uses Black Water and other mercenaries.

 

he is doing neither as well as you are doing neither.