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[article]Democratic congress makes life easier for moderate republicans

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by SamFisher, Apr 7, 2007.

  1. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Some of our non-moderate republican colleagues like to describe the democratic congress as a trotskyite insane criminal collective, I guess this is not the case. The amount of Republican crossover in some of the voting is surprising even to me.
     
  2. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    What's that term from Psych 101? Oh yes, Projection.
     
  3. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    So it is easier on guys that are pro-union and for raising the minimum wage? Is it also easier for republicans that are for against tort reform, for gun control, for free access to abortion on demand, and against tax cuts. Man, this is blowing my mind. Who could have possibly predicted that a democratic congress woujld be pro-union and for raising the minimum wage?
     
  4. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Who would have believed that Republicans in Congress would be thrilled that they lost their majority? Nine GOP House members from the Northeast lost their seats in the last election. Apparently, that was a splash in the face of freezing cold water, and the remaining ones woke up. Those congresspersons should have thought of that when they were busy rolling over and voting for Bush Administration and GOP Congressional leadership policies, despite not believing in them. Bummer for them. More will be defeated in '08. The GOP is in BIG trouble, and I'm loving every minute of it, even if I'm not enjoying at all the disaster they've propelled this nation into.



    D&D. Propulsion.
     
  5. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    It shows how out of touch the republican leadership was and how extremist their ideology was compared to the average american.
     
  6. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Actually, it shows that when you have political views more in line with the other party, then you will have an easier time when that party is in power, regardless of the little letter they put after your name on TV.
     
  7. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Especially when those views are in synch with a majority of americans rather than being held hostage to the whims of hard core right wing ideologues.

    It's amazing that the extremism of the Republican party survived in power for so long. I think people just didn't know what they were getting into until it became too late.
     
  8. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    No, regardless of the views of the American public. If the human sacrifice party was in power, it would make life easier for the Republicans who were for human sacrifice. If your views mesh with the majority of congressmen, then it makes life in congress easier, be they in synch with average American's, opposed, or on issues about which the American people have no knowledge or opinion. I understand that you don't like the GOP's views, but this article really doesn't speak to that.
     
  9. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    You mean the surge? yes that is true, a pro surge party would make human sacrifice easier. Is that what you're referring to?
    Wow, I find it a bit heartening that you think the average American's view is so inconsequential (which I think, at least regarding minimum wage raise which you specifically mentioned, was something like 67% in favor of, IIRC).

    I only hope the Republican party leadership continues to echo your sentiments and continues to pursue the same uncompromising hard right ideology. It would greatly enhance democratic prospects.

    Anyway, by focusing on the obvious you're ignoring the .... inconvenient truth. Republican leadership drifted too far to the right and was roundly rebuffed (belatedly, IMO, but that's another argument). This rebuttal is confirmed by willingness of even Republican elected representatives to discard the hard right agenda. The permanence of a rightward shift trumpeted by Rovey and others was greatly exaggerated, as is the ridiculous caricarturization of democrats as moving to the left when it was obvious that it was Republicans who were moving further and further to the right. And the fruits of this rebuttal are being harvested, which is good for America, IMO.
     
    #9 SamFisher, Apr 8, 2007
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2007
  10. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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  11. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    straw man? explain. You're just spinning to minimize what you don't want to admit and saying how you're not surprised. (which I believe you've done before in this area).

    You haven't offered any substantive rebuttal whatsoever, let alone one that can be converted into a straw man argument.
     
  12. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    It isn't amazing at all. Because of 9/11, the Bush-ites had a prolonged honeymoon period that included the 2002 elections. Then in 2004, the Dumbocrats nominated one of the sorriest candidates in recent memory, John Kerry, when the White House was theirs for the taking. Therefore when you arrive at November 2006, the GOP has to take the blame for everything that has gone wrong. With no excuses, the American public punished them. If the Dems don't blow it in 2008, they will pound the GOP severely by capturing the presidency and increasing their majorities in Congress. But after 2004 I've learned to never discount the Dems ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

    History may remember Bush like it does Carter. Carter's incompetence helped boomerang Ronald Reagan and the GOP Congress into power. The effects have been far reaching. Bush's incompetence and corruption may lead to a 10-12 year period of Democrat domination. We shall see.
     
  13. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

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    Hold on a sec. ...The declaration of this "crossover" is based on moderates being moderates in passing bills that can be moderately agreeable as initiated by the left and introduced to moderates?

    Give it time though, ...real issues such as appeasement and higher taxes...arghhhh too late!
     
  14. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Obviously I never made this argument. Straw man argument number 1: anyone who supports the surge is for human sacrifice. Obviously I was discussing a hypothetical party that is for actual human sacrifice (cutting out hearts, throwing people into a volcano kind of stuff) which I think most of the readers figured out and is certainly not beyond your ability to grasp. You choose not to address this (which is perfectly reasonable, as there is really no room for discussion here - it is obvious that being in an environment where the powers that be agree with you make things easier), but instead went off on your fantasy trip to the land where me and the evil GOP are doing our damndest to kill every member of the US military out of our twisted desire to inflict pain and misery on them and their families.

    I also never said the average American's view was inconsequential. As we live in a (representative) democracy, the average American's view affects policy. I said that agreeing with the party in power makes things easier for a congressman, and that the views of the average American have no effect on this fact. This would be straw man argument #2.

    You are welcome to talk about the policies of the GOP platform or the Bush administration specifically, or even the thoughts I put forward. None of that was mentioned by me or the article in this thread though. Look at the posts that you quoted, and you will find only the main topic of discussion: that the Republican congressman who agree with Democratic policies are having an easier time in the Democratic controlled congress, and that I think that is self-evident, and does not require an article for the denizens of this BBS to figure out.

    So, I stand by my original response to your post.
    [​IMG]
     
  15. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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    we can all sleep better know. more unions and higher min wage. rejoice
     
  16. Major

    Major Member

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    I didn't realize Congress created unions. :confused:
     
  17. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    I never said you did make it. You're the one making straw men by saying I made a straw man where they don't exist. I just thought it an ironic choice of words regarding "human sacrifice", recent congressional debates, and another depressingly high-body bag weekend. That's called a tangent, not a straw man, but anyway the thing I took off on a tangent was a tangent itself. So no harm done.


    No, not a straw man, just a matter of you drawing artificial lines which lead to rather confusing but meaningless semantics - which let me say are extremely inconsequential.

    No, it's not the main topic of discussion. I didn't start the thread to say that. Obviously you wish to avoid the main topic or don't understand what it is, but that has nothing to do with straw men.

    In any event the main topic is how out of synch and unpopular the hard right wing Republican leadership views really were, and the lesson which I have drawn about the Republican party leadership's far right maneuvers being at the heart of their downfall (which provides further confirmation of claims of "extreme liberals" being in control of the democratic congress being bogus)

    If you want to start a thread on a different topic, please be my guest, or you can even reply to this one in a non-useless way.
     
  18. ShakeYoHipsYao

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    In all fairness, the inference you keep drawing from the article you posted simply isn't there. There are also bills that will never see the floor now that the Dems are in power, but that some more conservative Dems would like to see. That, alone, doesn't mean that the Dem leadership is radically left-wing. Similarly, the fact that some Republicans now find it easier to push certain areas in their respective agendas doesn't imply anything about the previous leadership beyond their views on those particular issues.
     
  19. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    The inference itself isn't there, that's why I'm drawing it. THe evidence that supports how far out of line DeLay, Hastert, et al's ideology based policy was out of step w/that of the consensus among voters is overwhelming.
     
  20. ShakeYoHipsYao

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    To what evidence are you referring? I didn't see any polling numbers in the original post. Your argument, that certain Republicans' approval of new legislation in the Democratic Congress demonstrates a disconnect between the people and the previous leadership, is simply invalid.
     

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