I've attempted to come up with some kind of response to this ridiculousness but I can't do it. I'm totally baffled. I guess like God, I can't rationalize this crazy post.
Why? Everything exists because the circumstances are there for them to exist. That is why. It is simple, no god needed. It is not ridiculous like your ignorant smug self would think it to be. It is completely rational. Now please answer the "why" to why your god does not have to fit within your own rules. That is what is ridiculous, irrational and insane.
fit within my rules??? God doesnt conform to us, man. We dont make rules for Him. I told you before, God is not confined within our reason or mental limits. We live according to His guidelines. "Why" as in what is the reason for the existence for all of it is not answered by your post. Why do you reply with hate? You say I am ignorant and smug? I have a masters degree in History, with a B.A. in Philosophy and Religion. I have traveled the world and learned all religions and met thousands of wonderful people. I have lived everywhere. I am not ignorant my friend. I speak of my own experiences. Smug? This is a quality I dislike very much, and have never possesed. I always speak sincerely and directly. I have nothing against you. I wish no argument.
see above post, same answer for your reply Why is it so ridiculous? As I said before, we cannot comprehend all that there is. We should not be so arrogant to disprove everything we dont understand. Why the insults? Just for you I will say this, since I know you dont like philosophical mumbo jumbo, "we cannot see wind, but we can see its effect, and so we know it is there", same goes for God
I'm not angry at all. I only reused the same words that you originally used. You first threw out out "ridiculous, irrational and insane." I am just showing you a mirror.
I said ridiculous one time. I dont know where you get insane and irrational. That wasnt me. Anyway why dont we try to find something in common? We both like Yao, right?
I think ultimately there are many things that we may never know. However I do think that the dichotomy between the only following possibilities is probably false: 1) universe/everything is created by an omnipotent "God" 2) universe and everything within it is all that there is, there is no higher level of reality or intelligence For all we know, there could be a progression of universes within universes. Maybe the whole universe is just a particle in another larger universe. Maybe there are many parallel universes. Maybe the universe (or the larger reality that our perceived universe is part of) has always existed (i.e. universes get created and destroyed all the time and has been happening forever). I could go on and on. Even if there is a "creator", it may not be anything like our concept of "God". It could be simply be beings on a higher level (just like we are on a higher level than the amoeba) that lives in its own society who may in turn has their own creators but that aren't omnipotent. I don't pretend to know and don't claim to know. HOWEVER, I have no basis for claiming that possibility (1) is any more likely or probable or makes sense than any other myriad of possibilites. In some ways possibility (1) doesn't make a lot of sense but I won't go into that in great detail. Or at least I would say that possibilty (2) and all other possibilities make no less sense or is any less likely or probable than possibility (1).
This discussion is turning too much into a "prove God exist" debate. There is no empiracal way of proving God exist. It is a matter of belief which is either held or not.
yes, i believe God exists. everything is created, so why shouldn't we be created? we have a purpose, and our creator tells us that purpose, read the qur'an with a sincere heart and an open mind, you will be amazed. also, i just read a really good (and short) philosophical work on this issue, you might want to check it out. it's called meditations on first philosophy by rene descartes (who is most well known for his contributions to mathematics, but he's also an excellent philosopher).
I don't believe in god. But I don't rule out the possibility of a higher intelligence. I find it very unlikely, though. And if there was a higher intelligence, I'm pretty sure it would be very different from all the gods created by men. I never understood how some people could worship something that might not exist. Or how they could believe stories based on books written several hundred years ago, when I don't even trust articles on newspapers to be really reliable today. Oh well, if they feel better doing it, good for them.
If you asked Carl Jung, he's have told you that we believe in god because we've evolved to - that it's advantageous to believe in god then to not. Perhaps people with faith tend to endure hardship better and live longer healtier lives. So faith might be a gain - even on strictly biological reasons. Heck, I believe in god just for the health benefits myself.
the universe and everything in it but I know that isnt a sufficient answer for many, so quite often it takes a miracle, in other words a person many times wont believe until something miraculous happens to them, miraculous meaning of divine nature; and I know many will say miracles dont happen, and that they are only natural events, and so we could just go around and around until we die and then it will be known
the people that worship something that might not exist dont believe that it might not exist; those who sincerely worship believe with all their heart and soul
I think I understand your point. I actually think you are making two claims here. The first is that existence itself ("the universe and everything in it") is evidence of God's existence, just as certain unseen forces are evidence of wind's existence. I disagree, but I'll give you that for now. The second is that there are phenomena (miracles) that are "of divine nature," implying the existence of a devine being. I think this can be dismissed, as there is really no way of differentiating between divine and natural occurences (unless you know one). So I find it interesting that you would say this: Why compare your beleif that God exists to the beleif that wind (or any other natural phenomenon) exists when you clearly have no interest in the question of whether or not God exists?!?!
Hello again. Nice post. OK, first let me say yes, that is what I meant regarding wind. Second, there is a way to differentiate between natual and divine occurences. A divine event, or an act of God is unmistakeable, for it is unearthly, for example, the story of how Saul became St. Paul, the parting of the Red Sea, bringing Lazarus back to life, and so on and so forth. However, like I said before unless one believes in that sort of thing, he/she will not accept such stories as fact, until a miracle happens TO him/her, just like what happened to Saul. Lastly, you're right. I have no interest at all in the question of whether or not God exists because I know with all my being that He does. So you would be right in saying that I should never have even bothered writing in this thread, because I am writing more on the subject of proving God's existence, rather than simply stating my belief of "yes or no". Perhaps I have gone way overboard. Accept my apologies.
No need for apologies. I appreciate your honesty, but I must take issue with the idea that you "know" that God exists. I think knowing requires some degree of proof or evidence, but you have already said that your beleif in God does not depend on the available evidence. Is it possible that, while you beleive that God exists, you do not know so, and are not interested in such knowledge?
Well here stars the vicious cycle. To me, the degree of proof/evidence is the universe and everything in it, and in the details of it all (like the way we hurt right in the middle of our chest when we lose a loved one), combined with supernatural events, although quite rare, that I have experienced in my world travels. But I cant expect you to just take my word for it. I will pose you an interesting question: If I am willing to lay down my life for my belief in God, wouldnt you think that I just may know something? Either that or I am crazy, right?
