He wasn't exactly lighting it up, but he was playing well enough to deserve 10 minutes a game. He got about 5 points and 5 boards per game his first 6-7 games. This is fine for 10 minutes a game. It's obviously not good enough for the #1 pick, but that wasn't my point. Yes, I did watch those games. Ryan Bowen is the last example you want to bring up. He has no talent, and he got court time due to hard work. So, if Spanoulis works hard in practice, this must mean that he has less talent than Ryan Bowen (truly a scary proposition)? Or else he has some more talent, but he clearly must not be working hard, otherwise how would no-talent scrubs like RyBo get minutes?
If I remember correctly, Yao averaged something lie 2 points, 4 rebounds, 33% shooting percentage in his first 4 games with around 15 minutes per game. Definitely not 5/5 in 10 minutes. Ryan Bowen's example means you can't judge if a player works hard or by his stats in limited minutes. It's not just the talnet issue, he shot better in the Dallas series than his last year and his shooting wasn't that bad in his career. But that doesn't mean he didn't work hard in his last year. Vspan's high TO is understandable, Greek basketball and NBA basketball are different, the chemistry between him and teammates are not established due to lack of playing time. The only way to improve is play more and get more experience, starting from those blown outs.
Before his 8th game, which was the breakout game against the Lakers, Yao averaged 4.3 points and 3.4 rpg on 54% shooting in 14 minutes a game. These are reasonable averages for 14 minutes a game. It is obvious when watching Ryan Bowen play that his talent is extremely limited, but he makes his money by hustling. We can easily see why Ryan Bowen struggled; he's a no-talent scrub. Now Spanoulis has seen even less court time than Bowen. So is he a no-talent scrub of worse order than Bowen, or does he not work hard to earn his minutes? Pick your poison.
You know... we hear this alot... but IMO Popovich realized their strengths and used them. If you watch these guys play they are not limited to being spot up shooters around Duncan. They drive the lane, they dish, they get to the line. Popovich has realized that is what they can offer the team IMO. Van Gundy however tries to make Vspan into something he is not. You don't shine on the international stage against all of the NBA's best players yet come here to suck. It is the system and the way Van Gundy tries to use him as a player. I understand why he is frustrated. Im frustrated watching it.
I would be hard pressed to think that we would see Ryan Bowen as one of the brightest international players.....
I wat talking about first week all the time. He got 10+ minutes even if he was really bad. Has Vspan got the same chance? I don't think so. What do you mean pick my position? I made it clear long time ago: Vspan didn't get enough chance to show what he can do, talented or not. It's not up to him, it's JVG's call. And JVG may not be totally right on this one. By looking at Vspan's shooting percentage month by month, he's improving. In Feb, he shot 44%, in Mar. he shot 60%. So how do you tell he's not working hard? Yet, I can tell he doesn't get the chance to play.
I said earlier that #1 picks get more leeway than second round scrubs, this is expected and correct, but even #1 picks must earn the big minutes. If Yao didn't have that lakers game and then the Dallas game, he would have kept getting 10 minutes a game. We are splitting hairs distinguishing between first week and the first 7 games, they are basically the same, because Yao was a scrub at that stage of his career. Oh, BTW, Spanoulis was given a month of steady PT to prove himself after Snyder broke his hand, and he didn't do it. You got yourself into the hole by bringing up Bowen. Bowen got way more PT than Spanoulis does now, but clearly Bowen is clearly a no-talent scrub. So... either Spanoulis is a no-talent scrub too, or Spanoulis doesn't work as hard as Bowen to earn his minutes from JVG, neither of which is particularly good for Spanoulis.
You are deadly wrong here. There could be a 3rd reason: JVG's stubboness. Bowen got way too much PT because JVG was stubbon. It's the same case here. Vspan has some skillsets that other Rox PGs don't have: He's bigger and stronger than both Rafer and JLIII, he can penetrage and dish to open teammates better than them, he's more of a team player and sets up the offense better than JLIII. In one word,His potential is higher than both of them. Yet JVG just doesn't want to play him anymore once he heard his complaints.
JVG stubborn? Luther Head went from "He'll be lucky to get any minutes" to first man off the bench. Ryan Bowen went from a valued hustle player to "he'll need to improve to stay in the NBA," and lo and behold, he is now out of the NBA. He gave Bonzi and Snyder extra chances to prove themselves. Juwan went from DNP-CD at the beginning of the year to another valued contributor off the bench by now. Chuck Hayes came out of the NBDL and immediately made an impact, he's so stubbornly biased against young players that Chuck Hayes is now starting and is a valued contributor.
Just watch that video and it tells you everything you need to know about why V-span can play the game. Who is the last guard we had that can draw a charge at the 3pt line? DD
You sir are a brilliant poster, who clearly understands. Cohen, Yes I see Rafer directing traffic on offense, on defense I see Rafer watching the back of the man he is guarding. DD
Yes, which is mind numbing as to why V-Span has not gotten out of the doghouse for his 2nd chance. But you are leaving out the negatives.. JVG did not want Luther - he thought him too small....JVG cut Hayes, he thought him too small....JVG gave Bonzi chance after chance to fail.....and then FINALLY saw what a good number of us saw...he didn't fit. JVG needs to give V-Span another chance... DD
How is JVG not stubbon? I don't believe Luther would get the same chance had Rockets not been hit by injury that hard last year. Bonzi and Snyder both went to JVG's doghouse until they gave in(I agree with his decisions here). It's a miracle that Bowen could have played that much minutes on Rox while shooting 28% as a PF. Chuch Hayes was sent back to NBDL after a very nice summer league, and called back only when there was too much injuries. All these means JVG is stubbon. But stubbon doesn't mean he's stupid. In fact he's too smart not to be a very good coach. He usually figures out after his failed experiments. That's why Chuck Hayes is playing starters now and Ryan Bowen is gone. Right now JVG is just being stubbon to Vspan, not developing him like he used to do with Boki.
JVG NEEDS TO PLAY VSPAN, IF WE PLAY UTAH THERE IS NO WAY JOHN LUCAS OR RAFER CAN PLAY FISHER AND DERON ALL THE TIME. We will get owned.
well if vspan's manager convinces him to leave it would be a mistake IMO. He has a chance to make in the NBA and he shouldn't throw it away no matter how hard it is. I personally think that Vspan wants to stay but those managers can be very persuasive especially if all of the PAO clan is in Vspan's ear too. Anyways I wish Billy all the best with his decision. stin dusi stin dusi Vasili tha *amiseis!!!! (for non greek speakers: In the west in thee west billy you'll fck em.)
He should wait until the end of the season and see if JVG hangs around. If we lost in the 1st round, I am betting JVG is gone. The new coach may play Vspan more. Who knows?
and again everything I said previously has come up this team is going to go as much JVG allows them it's up to JVG to get the best out of his players
The wild card is that the Rockets control his contract, so it is up to what Morey, and CD and JVG think of his future. DD
Ryan Bowen was horrible and deserved no time. That is a prime example of JVG being stubborn. A guy like Ryan bowen should never have been on any nba team. VG picks his "favorites" like Bowen and sticks with them for no reason. VSPAN deserves time. He has put in hard work and has skill
