Height does not make you a big man, your game does!

I don't even see the need to defend the fact that Francis is THE MAN in the 1999 draft. I thought Steve's play up to this point would have said enough, but you know how people love to overreact to every single game. Lets just see if anyone will question who the better player is in a year or so.

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I'll miss you Charles.

 

Good point bigboy.

I haven't really seen Odom post up too much. Everyone keeps calling Odom a big man. But what constitutes a big man is your ability to post up and back a defender down. Odom is a guard in a big man's body, but I have no doubt that sooner or later, Odom will start to develop a game with his back to the basket.

 

Odom does have a very good post up game. He was down in the low blocks a lot at Rhode Island. Has a wonderful baby hook. Good fadeaways. Really understands the low post game. With the Clippers right now, there's no point in isolating Odom downlow with Mo Taylor and Candyman in the low blocks already. It would basically clog the middle consider Candyman is useless 15 feet away from the basket.

And I think the argument that has been going around is that if one had a choice, they would rather have someone taller as the go to player. Guards that are 6'3" and shorter have rarely been able to dominate on a nightly basis. Jordan, Magic, Bird, Bark, Hak, and etc were all 6'6" and taller. There is a difference when Jordan provides help defense with his good size and long arms and when Stevie provides help D. Also, it is rather presumptions to declare a certain player in the 99 draft better than another player. The difference between Odom and Francis is rather miniscule at this point. To say Odom hasn't brought his game everynight is crazy, especially considering most people haven't seen all the games he plays. What I will say is that Odom has had a better year thus far than Stevie. Steve has played atrocious defense this year. Odom has been solid in almost every game. He's even had one more game winning shot than Steve has thus far. Both are damn good players. I'm thankful that we at least have one.

 

Tall or short... big or small... it doesn't matter! If you can play basketball, then you can play!

Da Man, first of all, Barkley wasn't taller than 6'6" Second, you seem to have forgot about guys like Nate Archibald, Pete Maravich, Isaiah Thomas, and Tim Hardaway... they were all short (in NBA standards) but were all able to dominate on a nightly basis.

as for my opinion on Odom, I love his game. but between Francis and Odom, I'd still take Francis. because it seems, no matter how good your all-around game is, you still need a dominant scorer to win games. just like Oscar needed Kareem and Pippen needed Jordan. and just like Grant needs someone a little better than Stackhouse and Garnett needs some help. because if the score was tied with a few seconds to go... who would you rather have? the dominant scorer or the player with the all-around game?

 

Da Man is right on, as I brought up this topic my sole point was that most CHAMPIONSHIP teams best player was a big man, not a smallish guard. The only exception being Detroit.

Please do not get me wrong, I love Steve Francis and what he brings to the table...sans his horrible defense to date.
Especially if he keeps getting everyone involved as he has done as of late.

I just would rather have my teams DOMINANT personality (read best player) be a larger player. Not necessarily a POST player, but a larger...TALLER...player.

DaDakota

"Just because I like big players over small does not mean I will cheer any less for my Rockets !!!"

[This message has been edited by DaDakota (edited December 31, 1999).]

 

Odom's game winning shot was a running baby hook over Kevin Garnett. It wasn't an outside shot. The argument that DaDakota has been pounding endlessly is that he'd rather have the best player be a big man, not in the sense of a low post player. But just a taller guy than 6'3". Tim Hardaway cannot dominate games every night and never did. He dominated every once in a while back in the day, but not every night. Kevin Johnson was the same way in his prime. Couldn't dominate every single night, but every other night. Isiah Thomas was the only exception. Nate Archibald...well i'm not even going to comment since I've never seen him play live. I'm sorry I classified Barkley in the category as 6'6" or taller. He was a late throw in in my argument. But his width makes up for the lack of height.

If one had the choice a taller player with similar skills, and a shorter player with similar skills, naturally you want the taller player. You can think of it this way. When a game winning shot comes around, having a 6'6", 6'7", 6'8" guy shooting the game winner is more likely to get the shot off than a 6'3" guard. I'd rather have Odom taking the game winner, than Mobes or Francis.

And I'll just defend Odom a little bit more. First off,the Clippers have a good go to post player in Maurice Taylor. There is no point in rotating post players down low and having them take turns. Then their offense with turn into the rockets' old game plan. Odom is practically their Point Guard. He really sets up their offense great. He can get more teammates involved with dribble penetration and the dish off, than posting up and waiting for double teams. Odom got to the rack almost at will yesterday. He just had a horrible shooting day. But he triple double speaks volumes about getting his teammates involved. He serves his teammates better but dictating the offense from the perimeter rather than clogging up the post and rendering some of his teammates obsolete in that particular offensive set. I've probably seen more Lamar Odom games than anyone. I know he has a burning passion for playing this game. He's played almost every position for the hapless Clippers. He's given his clips an almost identical record with the Rockets. He carried his Rhode Island team literally to the NCAA tournament. In fact, he hit the buzzer beating shot in the Atlantic 10 conference tournament to qualify Rhode Island. And He has 2 more buzzer beaters including one in his first ever collegiate game. I've seen Steve slack off quite a few games this year. His biggest problem so far is his defense. The pick and rolls have been eating him up. His defensive rotations have been unjustifiably slow. Steve is going be a fantastic player. But to question Odom's passion is not called for. He may not let out a big yelp like Stevie on every dunk, but he is definately got his mind on the win. That's all he cares about. But like I've said, Odom's is probably #1 right now and Stevie's 1A. They both are pretty damn good. But to quanitify who's going to be a better pro is impossible right now. We're just lucky to have one.

Oh yeah, why is Francis considered a dominant scorer at this point and Odom is not a dominant scorer? So far, Stevie's highest scoring game is what...26 points. He is not exactly at the point where you can call him a dominant scorer. Both of their scoring averages are almost identical right now. Heck Odom has even scored 30 points in a game once.

[This message has been edited by Da Man (edited December 31, 1999).]

 

The Clippers' coach is an idiot. If Odom does have a good post up game, then he should be utilizing it. But also, Odom was bigger than a lot of college players; in the NBA, everybody is bigger and stronger. Perhaps that's a reason why Odom hasn't utilized his low post game.

 

The Clippers' coach is an idiot. If Odom does have a good post up game, then he should be utilizing it. But also, Odom was bigger than a lot of college players and he could back them down easily; in the NBA, everybody is bigger and stronger. Perhaps that's a reason why Odom hasn't utilized his low post game.