Gang-Raped Victim in Saudi Arabia gets 90 Lashes, Some Rapists get 10 Months

The "So what" was in reference to the fact that people would bring up this talking point in order to degrade traditional Islamic law and methodology.

I say current laws of Muslim governments are IRRELEVANT to what is established in the Islamic religion. I know public image especially in this modern day is important, and when people feel that religion is being attacked, they have to get all defensive and denounce these acts.

But instead of being all apologetic and trying to reason, we just have to overtly say "SO WHAT?" and "How does this relate to textual support?"

They have freakin' nightclubs in Dubai. And people will still partial-quote texts to support their actions.

The nerve of some people. But yes, Muslims can't just sit on their ass and just let these things happen. It's the lack of action that causes all sorts of issues. Islam is a duty-based religion, not a religion of passivity.

 

My point is that only denouncing these things is getting us nowhere, but its bettter to research and examine the source of the problem, instead of just saying "oh so and so got raped and was punished in this way, and that's wrong!" will not solve these issues.

 

P.S. I hate the lack of an edit function (I'm used to it in other forums). I'm used to clicking the "Submit Reply" button and then getting rid of typos. It's a bad habit.

 

Considering how this country has an enabler for bad Saudi behavior, I think it's past time we did something. One can analyze various religions, and various branches of various religions until the cows come home, but at some point, you have to hold governments responsible for their actions. Americans did that in the last election.



D&D. Up, Down, and All Around.

 

Well, maybe. But I'll withhold my opinions about U.S. "moral" intervention in the Middle East in order to prevent sidetracking from the topic.

 

I haven't claimed to be right - or above being wrong. I'm only questioning...I haven't even taken a firm position yet. So what can I be wrong about? I'm merely trying to see if everyone who so adamentally condemns Saudi society as barbaric is using a standard that's fair. Barbaric because of one incident? Relative to us? What are people saying. Seems like most are actually saying, "We are better then the Arabs" which I find highly disturbing. I think it reveals a lot of ignorance and simple minded ness. It's once thing to say this is wrong and needs to be fixed, it's another to say they are moral decripit as that's the next step to dehuminzing them and doing what the Nazis did to the Jews and what the Chinese are doing to the Tibetans.

The rest of your response doesn't make sense. I abhor PC-ness. That's not what I am opposing here. It's not words per se, it's the thinking. I don't really care if you call them barbarians. It's that people here THINK they are barbarians, and I am questioning that...not their right to say it. I'm asking people to consider that may not be true. NOw - how is that being PC? If I was PC, i'd say you all are racists and should be censored and be made fun of in the press. Ostracized. That's what PC does for you.

The rest of your writing is just showmanship I think. Look, lecturing me personally is quite arrogant and a weak attempt to show your superiority. Let's leave that out and stick to the debate....no need to personalize it. It's not about me or you, it's about Saudi culture and the view that it's less then civilized and they are less then us.

 

you havent taken a firm position yet on whether or not it is wrong to give 90 lashes to a woman who was raped? you seem to be arguing pretty strongly in favor of the punishment she received and claiming it is justified.

how is anyone supposed to take anything you say seriously. you admit that you often take positions that you dont agree with just for the sake for arguing and you admit that you will lie or make up stuff about yourself just to bolster your arguments.

 

I find it hilarious that you the moron would be here opening your trap about PC all the while comparing the Chinese government and the Nazis in the same sentence.

When if ever is your lousy excuse for brain going to provide something substantial to prove that CCP actions against the Tibetans match what the Nazis have done to the jews?

Funny thing, not even the post radical "human rights activists" made such claims. But then again, things are so much more sensational when hauled out of your ass. I would have called you an attention wh*re if I hadn't know better, that you are a moron.

 

yet rape isn't material to the discussion. I have made the point that if you robbed a bank, and then got raped, does being the victim of rape excuse you of the prior crime?

Answer that? you don't want to. You want to focus on the fact she was raped because that's how you can win and continue to keep a narrow-minded point of view.

If you really have an open-mind, you can question anything. But you can't, so you are proving your mind is closed. Is there anyone here who truly has an open-mind? If so, let's see it, otherwise, there's no purpose for me to post here anymore.

 

If you contribute to the tipjar you become a contributing member and get to use an edit function.

 

I think that's an important issue and I agree with you that there is a real danger in applying this particular case to all of Islam or even Sunni Islam. I don't think its fair to tar Islam with this case as much as it is fair to tar Christianity with Fred Phelps (the minister who protests at soldier's funerals) or Buddhism with Shoko Asahara (the Japanese cultist who launched sarin nerve gas attacks).

That doesn't mean that we can't or shouldn't express our dissaproval. We live in a free society. I think the key thing is that dissaproval though isn't persecution and just because we disagree with the actions of some Muslims doesn't mean we are out to bash Islam.

I am very cautious though regarding how we solve the issue. As outsiders we can express dissaproval but ultimately this is an issue to be resolved in Islam in general and in Saudi Arabia in particular. I'm very leery of the Neo-con/Wilsonian idea that we should go about using force to impose our particular value system on another culture. As we see in Iraq that leads to a whole host of other problems likely greater than the one we were trying to solve. At the moment I think expressing dissaproval is the best course of action and letting the Saudis know that to most of the rest of the World they are considered barbaric in this regard.

 

im a pretty open minded dude, but when it comes to situations like this i have no tolerance for what is happening to that woman. and no, being the victim of rape doesnt excuse one of a prior crime. i dont believe anyone is claiming any such thing. but it is completely moronic for you to compare bank robbery w/ a woman getting into a car w/ a man. the punishment for her "crime" is excessive at the minumum, and in my opinion totally barbaric and evil. the fact that the rapists get off easier than her is the definition of bass-ackwards.

you claim you havent made up your mind on the issue, but continue to vigorously defend the punishment handed down. and it is very classy of you to side with the rapists when you alledge that the rape victim is lying about being blackmailed into getting into the car. it says alot about the kind of person that you are that you spend more time blaming the victim and making her out to be the criminal rather than condeming what those bastards did to her.

why do you speak out against chinese cruelty towards tibetans, but vigorously defend the types of brutal punishments that saudi carries out for minor "crimes" like this?

like i said, you admit you take positions you dont agree with just for the sake of stirring the pot. you admit you will lie about yourself in order to make an argument. basically, you have zero credibility. you are a joke.

and this is about the 5th time in this thread that you say you wont post here anymore. either stop posting here or stop whining about it when people respond to you.

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the only part of this post i agree with is the last sentece. everything you are saying is speculative.

 

yeah, its a good thing all she got was brutally raped.

but she had it comming, right newyorker?

 

You're just trolling, NewYorker. You can't possibly believe the garbage you are tossing out here. Despite what some may think, D&D isn't a dumpster, although you would have it so.



D&D. Garbage In, Garbage Out.

 

Oh yeah - she had it coming. She had them at "hello".

Curse them Saudi women - they are deserve to get raped.


?????

 

I thought you were the grand garbage spewer of the lot? You mean that's not the case?

I don't think I have stated a believe in the thread here. I'm merely questioning the utter condemnation of a society from a bunch of self-righteous pious individuals who are unable to even CONSIDER another side.

Good luck to you sir.

 

SO which is it? Do you have an open mind or are you intolerant of considering other perspectives?

Which is it? You can't say both. You are one or the other. Make up your mind before you waffle between the two. Geez, I can't stand hypocrits.

 

No punishment has yet been carried out. I think that's a key distinction between the CHinese military shooting Tibetians in the back vs. a court sentencing the rapist to jail and thus far - the girl hasn't received any punishment. Let's talk after she gets those 90 lashes - which we all know she won't get.

Yup - and what's wrong with stirring the pot. Looks like you are quite stirred up? Why? Bent out of shape? Guess you never took a debate class in college huh? If you did, you probably would have found out that you were always assigned the positions you actually believed against. Now - why do you think they would do that? Just to "stir the pot"?????

I love it - you're whining about my whining! The irony - it's a beautiful thing - don't you agree?

 

Yeah it's ok to stir up the pot. But it's not ok if you stir up the pot by sensationalizing, lieing and exaggerating, like what you have been doing here day in and day out. We have names for fools like you. A few of the names just off my head include troll, moron, r****d, etc.

Yeah i know you will find this post very funny.