I guess JVG's work with Sprewell and (to a lesser extent) Kelvin Cato kind of blows your point to bits. That's how selective memory, or ignorance, works. You people who keep pointing out PJ and Rodman need to realize it was MJ who kept Rodman in line, not PJ. In fact, it was MJ who kept the entire team in line during that period of time. This is another case of selective memory or not knowing what was going on. None of us know what happened, but with Snyder's history, it's obvious to me JVG should get the benefit of the doubt on this one just like with Fatzi earlier in the season. Desert Scar, blaming JVG for Swift's and Mo Taylor's problems here make no sense at all. Just look what they've done after leaving. Both are completely worthless and it's totally on them. And it's not on JVG to force production out of Fatzi or Snyder. JVG's seemingly limitless patience with Bonzi the last couple of months is irritating. I don't know how much more slack a coach can give a player who doesn't produce and remains overweight and out of rhythm. Please tell us what more you want JVG to do with the guy. It ain't over till it's over, but Fatzi is starting to look like a bust and it's not the coach's fault.
He was suspended for the game by Van Gundy- Francis wanted to fly later after the party and join the team. He was coming to Sacramento on a later flight. Was it right? - Absolutely not!!! Van Gundy could have and should have brought Francis to the woodshed and talked to him like a Dutchman. Instead JVG went to the media crying like a little b****. This got blown way out of proportion by Van Gundy. Francis made a mistake and Van Gundy could have dealt with it any way he chose including the coaches decision to suspend him for the game-Van Gundy should not have brought it to the media. That is nothing to admire....
Maybe I am mistaken but didn't JVG recently call Yao to bring more of a swagger, and T-mac to play with more aggression on attacking the basket? I also believe he called out Shane Battier to not hesitate shooting the jumper earlier on in the year. I can also recall JVG pulling Rafer out very early in the San Antonio Spur game, when Rafer commited a bonehead turnover. JVG is a coach who demands A+ effort not only in games but in practices as well. I personally don't think that is much to ask for people who earn millions and millions of dollars for playing a children's game. JVG was asked about why Kirk Snyder was not on the active lineup the other day, I guess you would have preferred him just saying "no comment." JVG is here to coach our beloved Rockets not to hold their hands, and make sure they are behaving themselves, that much should be demanded. If you try to ignore something like that bigger problems come around, the chemistry starts breaking up, and the coach eventually loses full control of the team all together. It also seems that Kirk Synder responded very well from this slight bump on the road, and the team can move forward with hopefully any more distractions.
Why do you think it was Jordan instead of Phil J keeping the team together? Or at minimum some of both. Last I checked Phil J got 3 more rings in LA basically managing a fueding pair of players--a pair among a talented group that underachieved as a team before he got there. As I said before I am not blaming JVG for Wells, Snyder, Swift, Mo T and some others for being boneheads and having issues. Those guys are no doubt pains in the asses. But they have talent and that is why they came market cheap (except MT)--in the NBA you have to use the talent you got. As an example I mentioned Mad Max--who the Spers sent to us for nothing. Rudy T found a way to get him enough on the program to be a vital contributer untill he finally blew up (Drex trade). IMO based on the trends with similar kinds of players JVG would have had him in the doghouse and the rift would have just gotten bigger and bigger until Mad Max was chased out for nothing in return. As for Bonzi, he kicked ass less than a year ago. One coach found a way to make it work (others have used him effectively too). JVG just needs to keep working a find a way--and if you have to break your typical mold or rules you do it, results, not principle matter. This isn't like a rank and file business where there are all these Bonzi talents with better work ethic in the job application pool just waiting to replace him--this is the mistake many of the posters crying about "the spoiled players doing jobs anyone would love" don't get. This isn't the reality of pro sports--there is a very limited supply of great talents and many of them have issues--if you can't deal with them constructively you are limited what you team can become. Pretty much sums it up. The closest person to maybe pulling this off is Riles. Though I don't know if this is still his style to te degree it once was (he did get Williams, Walker and Payton commited to roles and playing his way). But Riles has 6 rings where the players can say to themsleve,s well maybe if I try it his way a little while I'll get one too. Maybe JVG learned from him, but Riles IMO has mellowed into a little more flexible type with experience, and JVG can't get that credibility bye in all those rings buy (Riley was a hard nosed player too). But hey, we are doing well this season. I am not saying JVG isn't the right coach just yet. I'll give him the benifit of the doubt now--see if he does have a plan for preparing a team for the postseason. If I am wrong about what I see as his erronious ways and my concerns, great, it will mean the Rockets did some damage in the postseason and used their full compliment of players better than they are now. But a poor postseason showing and change should be in order--take what JVG built (many good things) and find someone get even more out of them with a fresh perspective (think Larry Brown after Carlise (sp) in Det). No excuses, just results oriented. I am sure JVG would understand that.
Unless today's NBA is vastly different from the NBA of 2 years ago, Larry Brown was the epitome of the "my way or the highway" coach, and he won a ring with that approach. So, 2 of the last 3 champions would have had that type of coach that doesn't work in today's NBA. And until NY last year, Larry Brown had been successful with that everywhere he'd been, including being the only coach ever to get any type of winning out of Allen Iverson. Lots of styles can work (playing, coaching, whatever) - it's just a matter of executing them well.
Desert Scar, tell me which way it is: Does JVG have too tight a mold that all players must fit into or does he treat players too differently to the point of being unfair. Sorry to lump you in but the criticism of JVG's style comes from both sides and seems silly. No matter what he does in terms of coaching style or coaching decisions he will be under broad attack. I'm all for debating his strategies and playing time decisions but I'm sick and tired of people whining about how he supposedly is behind closed doors. Both Riles and Pop are two coaches who are more dictatorial than JVG and they've won championships. Tell me what exactly do you want JVG to do? Do you understand that sometimes a player can be unreachable on reasonable terms? With Fatzi and Synder's histories, it's quite likely that happened again. By the way, I would say Sprewell is more of a head case than Fatzi or Mad Max. Does this not show JVG getting production from a difficult player? And when Mad Max flipped off the deep end even St. Rudy couldn't salvage him. I followed the Bulls fairly closely in those days and I cannot give you a link. But based on comments from players, coaches and just common knowledge at the time, Jordan was the lockerroom enforcer. He wasn't much different then from his Wizards days except that it helped the Bulls. This is just another item that separates MJ from any player today. I'm sure PJ's competence gained Rodman's respect but it was MJ's intimidation (maybe that word is just a little too strong) and example that kept Rodman from acting out. Rodman respected the fact that MJ cut him no slack and didn't kid or joke around with him. MJ was probably the first person Rodman had met in a while who didn't kiss up or try to humor him as a way of gaining cooperation. One more comment: People need to understand the public JVG that is interviewed after games isn't the same guy at practice or shootarounds. Otherwise he wouldn't last 5 games in the NBA because the players would throw him off a bridge. Why JVG always stresses the negative during interviews is beyond me and I don't like it any more than the next person. But obviously his comments to the team and to players individually are fair, balanced and real, which is why so many ex players say good things about him.
Yep, I expect Jerry Sloan to be fired any day now in Utah. Larry Brown never had any success in this league, nor did Riley. Those hard ass coaches are doomed to failure and short careers.
IF you add Pop into the number of coaches who wont put up with crap, then you have damn near every championship coach in this decade that is known as a disciplinarian.
How was JVG was suppose to dance around the fact he suspended his star player? Its not like he can play dumb about it... And anyways the media would have found out the real reason sooner or later...
And Larry Brown wears thin after a while and changes jobs. Not saying JVG hasn't been good for the Rockets in lots of ways, but maybe if the results are not good this postseason it is worth a change. I would also argue he works harder to speak to players as equals/valuing them. Not putting up with crap is fine. But flexibility is a strength. As I have stated before Riley and Phil J have proven to get buy in and production out of difficult players. You want to put a player in the dog house as the absolute last recourse. Sure seems like JVG has a quicker trigger and longer stay than the others. The other tactical issue is JVG seems to work his starters, even role players types, at the max. Part of this is a narrow comfort zone IMO (and why probably other guys get frustrated, Snyder had to be sitting there thinking I can help when Head or Alston is playing like crap. Pop and Rileys don't do that--they position for the playoffs (be as fresh and peaked as possible) and have role players minutes in particular way down. But again, I care about results. If JVG gets it done this playoffs, by all means stick with him. But if not, I would do a change personally, Tmac is getting any younger and Yao is in his prime.
Riley benched antoine walker (and Posey, too, I think) and threatened to suspend him because he was too fat this year. And I don't even feel like bringing up Phil's repeated spank-fests with Andrew Bynum. If you think JVG is unique in having a doghouse you're mistaken.
Kirk played today. Generally, when you're in a doghouse, you stay there for a while. It was just a routine disciplinary action, and apparently there's no grudge between the coach and the player. It happens all the time.
I think Scotty's account would be a little different from that I'd say a good number of coaches have a bit of don't-take-crap approach, looking at the list: Scott Skiles has freakin Ben Wallace and his teams not wearing headbands.
Thank you sir. The heated discussion generated by the Snyder inactive game was mostly way off base. There was no "doghouse" involved.
Not unique, I just think his is bigger, more rigid, and harder to get out of. He also doesn't have the cred factor that Phil J or Riley has. Doesn't have the rings or player experience, and those are just other barriers to still getting buy in as a hard ass. But I hope my concerns prove minor or flat wrong, results count. No excuses if JVG doesn't have some playoff success this year, but if he has playoff success and the Rockets are playing as a group better than their individual talents-- you won't be hearing me call to replace him.
No other coaches in the NBA have the cred that PJ, Riles or Pop have. So what? Does that mean they can't discipline players? Do coaches have to win a championship first to get that privilege? That isn't what happened with those 3. Riles and Pop were hard cases from day one.
