I'm sick and tired of Rudy and Carroll sitting on there butts and letting this happen!.......all of it. [This message has been edited by Hardwood Hammer (edited December 28, 1999).]
A few reactions: 1. I agree that Rudy is doing something important: He's drawing up and trying out new plays. We're all seeing it. This is a big step forward for the new Rockets. My confidence in Rudy is way up. 2. I disagree that we can't really get into gear until Hakeem and TMass return. If we're waiting on those guys, we're in trouble. Not to put too fine a point on it, but Hakeem is history. He practically says as much himself: He's thinking now about his legacy and how to end his career on the proper note. Building a system around him at this point would be folly. The system needs to be built around our guards, and Hakeem needs to fit into it in such a way that Cato (or if he fizzles, some other big guy) can take over that role when Hakeem retires. 3. I doubt very much that the arena referendum is responsible for the team's morale problems. Players don't think about politics much. And it makes no sense for an owner to let his team languish if he's planning to shop for a new city. He needs his team to be a hot property so that he can get the best offers from cities that want a franchise. 4. Santa did not really bring kids any toys for Christmas, and the Rockets are not really trying to avoid the lottery this year. It's a nice fairy tale, and in a way we all need to believe it, but deep down you know it doesn't make sense. This is not the '95 or '98 Rockets with an arsenal of wily veterans who could make a serious run if they can squeak into the playoffs. This is a team of talented kids who are just learning the pro game and how to coordinate with each other. And they need at least one other major contributor (and probably two) to become a powerhouse. We had two ways of getting those contributors: by trading our aging stars or letting them retire and rebuilding through the draft. We chose not to trade our stars. So here's the hand you've all been dealt: Our stars got old. They're basically gone. We're rebuilding. We got a gigantic lucky break and head start by trading for a bona fide superstar in Steve Francis. We also got a solid role player in Shandon Anderson without giving up anybody. But we're still young, we're still uncoordinated, and we still suck. We're not going anywhere this year. We could get the 17th pick in the draft, or we could get the 5th. I'd rather lose a few more games, take the 5th (or trade the 5th and Detroit's pick to go even higher), come back next year to kick butt, and aim for the big show the year after that. And with all due respect to Rudy, I think that's what he's doing. But I understand why he needs to maintain the fairy tale. We all understand that the young Rockets need to believe it. So I'll shut up now and pretend I believe it, too.
You guys have had more intelligent posts in this thread than I have seen in a long time. Will your post on the Rockets lack of desire was right on. They do not help each other up off the floor. This team is new and has had pieces pulled from a lot of different teams. Lets hope that as they grow and mature they develop a "us vs. them" attitude. Right now they are a bunch of talented athletes collecting paychecks. They need a leader and that will be Francis or Mobley, but both are still rookies, as far as I'm concerned, and will need time to develop leadership qualities. The 4 types of players that Will talked about explains the Rockets team perfectly. Great job everyone.
Here's a bright view to Dream/TMass's return By continuing to mention Dream and TMass return, I'm pointing out first the obvious: 1. Hamilton won't play anymore 2. Bullard goes back to what he does best (not start) that's plenty in itself. In addition, a sweet 15-18' jumper from a 7'er (Hakeem) can easily be exploited in a guard-oriented offense. Any fundamentally sound D from 7'ers is always helpful (Hakeem). A turnaround J from another big man (TMass) is something I'd like Thomas to have. All-in-all: I expect the key to Hakeem's return to be his passing (or lack of). We now use the high post more than we have all decade. If Hakeem can learn the new plays, and know where everyone is, he could be a nice high post passer to go with that jumper. Will: How about exploiting Hakeem this way... Image Hakeem doing that triple option hand-off play you spotted. The guard running into the lane could occassionally stop and pick Hakeem man, so Hakeem could take the 10'er in the lane. Also, position Hakeem at the top of the key when Mobley does his iso starting at Hakeem's right. That pulls the center out, and threatens a Hakeem open 18'er pretty much anytime Mobley goes left--his strong hand. Plus if Mobley goes right...Hakeem can also quickly take up Mobley's vacated ISO position for another open J. Man...I love this game. Sorry for the verbosity everyone...but talking about the new plays is almost worth the struggling learning process we are having. Can we teach Hakeem the new plays? Can he ever pass effectively outside a structured offense? Those are the two keys that could make a 10 game swing in our season. IMHO. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited December 28, 1999).]
I kinda agree with a couple of those earlier posts, eventhough maybe it doesn't sound like it. Hear me out on this .... 1. I truly believe that the majority of players are playing their collective hearts out. But they look downtrodden at times. Like, "what the hell's the use!" 2. I do not fear a young team that puts forward the absolute best they can do and yet lose. I do not fear that they lose a series of games. I fear that eventually the players will catch on, that management is saying they want this team to be competitive, yet is not putting forward the same effort to affect that competitiveness, as they are demanding from this young team. I want to see passion in the eyes of the management even moreso than the players. 3. Hakeem will not be our savior this year, although I hope he comes back with a vengence, as he says he will. Without a doubt, the team will improve with him in the lineup. But,clearly, his leadership has always been in scoring or anchoring an offensive or defense pre-set. He never was the Rah! Rah! Rah! kind of leader that impassioned a team to reach greater heights. That was Ellie, Cassell, Barkley and maybe to a lesser degree Mobley or even Drexler. But never Hakeem. 4. (a) We have talent, but fall short on fundamental play execution (Ex: Free Throws). (b) We have desire and drive when winning but fall short with impassionated yet focused play in the face of defeat (Ex: Crunch time in the fourth). (c)We have missing pieces and gapingly obvious needs but fall short when one is available for hire (Ex: A GoTo Forward). In two of these areas the players must take it upon themnselves to improve. But the third issue is solely a management liability if they want this team to remain competitive. Cheers.
Popeye, please remember that I respect you in the utmost when you read my post. I’m trying to be very sincere. Do you want us to become the Detroit Pistons? They win 35-45 games every year, and are no closer to a championship now than when Grant Hill first came into the league. They have no long-range plan, and make stop-gap acquisitions like Bison Dele, Christian Laettner, and Loy Vaught to win more games in the present. It sounds like that’s what you’re wanting for this team. Anyone want to go back and read my greatest fear for this team: The kids getting comfortable losing! Rudy would ship anyone out who was feeling this way. He may not figure it out quick (Matt Maloney), but once you stop producing, you’re gone. This is the same song I have been singing since RT,CD and company decided to talk about competing all year, but in reality offer no real new alternatives: Isn’t it possible that there aren’t any alternatives? We are what we are: a rebuilding team. Any short-sighted acquisitions to win a few games are only going to lengthen the process. 1. Sam Mack signing or trade, Sam Mack obviously isn’t in our long-term plans. When this team develops, there is going to be a Sam Mack-type player on it (spot-up shooter), so I’m all for having one on the team now. However, Matt Bullard is already filling that role. I’d rather see Devin Gray play consistent minutes (I really like this guy) over Mack. (a)anyone still think RT refusing to send TMass/Walt Williams for Kittles was a smart move? I thought the rumored deal was Gill? Anyway, do you know for a fact that Rudy ‘refused’ this deal? If so, please provide specifics. The question becomes, does Gill fit into our long-range plans? Maybe, maybe not, I suppose. Rudy probably has the answer. (b)how about Mack,TMass for Taylor? We don't need another 15-16 point power forward do we? No disrespect, but this one made me laugh. Again, can you provide specifics that confirm this deal was on the table and Rudy rejected it? I know that you have access to inside info, and maybe you already brought this up in a thread I missed, but can you show us where the Clippers came to us and said we’ll give you one of our promising young players for two relatively unproven role players? Don’t you think some other team around the league could have matched that offer? Regardless, I’m not convinced that Kenny Thomas won’t be a better player than Taylor in a few years anyway. I’m sure Rudy and co. may feel the same way. 4. benching poor performances(explain to me again why Wiz gets all those touches), Rudy is a very patient guy. Walt did lose his starting job after about 25 games. That’s really not that much when you think about it. When you consider that Matt Bullard is our current starter at that position, I can understand Rudy’s hesitancy on the matter. I am not talking about wholesale changes, not even trades in general, or start panic nee-jerk reactions ... just some calculated moves so that the players KNOW that the MANAGEMENT IS DOING EVERYTHING IT CAN TO WIN. If you were a young player trying to prove yourself in the NBA, would you be happy if management signed a veteran to play your spot this year to pick up a few wins? I still love these players but they need support,CD and RT. It is not difficult to see thefire is getting dim. I couldn’t disagree more. Almost every great team is preceded by terrible, terrible losing. I’ve been watching some NFL specials on ESPN. Did you know that the NY Giants were 3-13 in Parcells’ first year as coach? I already knew about Dallas’ 1-15 season under JJ. Do you think those teams learned to accept losing? Will - 1. I agree that Rudy is doing something important: He's drawing up and trying out new plays. We're all seeing it. This is a big step forward for the new Rockets. My confidence in Rudy is way up. My confidence in him is up as well. And they need at least one other major contributor (and probably two) to become a powerhouse. We had two ways of getting those contributors: by trading our aging stars or letting them retire and rebuilding through the draft. We chose not to trade our stars. I disagree with the idea that we only had 2 ways to avoid a long rebuilding process (that is what you’re saying, right?). The Rockets picked a 3rd way – relying on shrewd personnel moves to enable you to treat your vets with the proper respect they’ve earned, while still acquiring the young pieces necessary to contend in the future. If Hakeem and Charles don’t get hurt this year, we probably wouldn’t even be having this conversation, but would instead be talking about who we’d rather play in the first round. We got a gigantic lucky break and head start by trading for a bona fide superstar in Steve Francis. We also got a solid role player in Shandon Anderson without giving up anybody. We did not get lucky. We drafted incredibly well with Dickerson and Othella Harrington. This allowed us to land a future star in Francis, much the same way as the Lakers parlayed a mid-1st round pick in Vlade Divac into a future star in Kobe Bryant. We weren’t the only team that could’ve traded for Francis. We landed Shandon Anderson for a variety of reasons: at the time, we were offering a chance to start on a contender. We offered the chance to grow alongside the phenom we acquired (Francis) through shrewd personnel moves. Above all, the Rockets are a class organization with a perceived reputation for rewarding players for signing smaller deals (Maloney, Harrington). None of this was luck. But we're still young, we're still uncoordinated, and we still suck. We're not going anywhere this year. We could get the 17th pick in the draft, or we could get the 5th. I'd rather lose a few more games, take the 5th (or trade the 5th and Detroit's pick to go even higher), come back next year to kick butt, and aim for the big show the year after that. With all due respect, I can’t see how a fan could think like that. The only thing on my mind is beating Toronto tonight. And with all due respect to Rudy, I think that's what he's doing. But I understand why he needs to maintain the fairy tale. We all understand that the young Rockets need to believe it. There is no doubt in my mind that Rudy feels the opposite of the way you stated. I think the only thing on his mind is winning games. He just wants to do it while building a future at the same time.
TheFreak -- You begin your post by asking Popeye, "Do you want us to become the Detroit Pistons? They win 35-45 games every year, and are no closer to a championship ... They have no long-range plan." But by the end of your post, you're dismissing a long-range plan that requires the high draft picks that come from a losing season. You say, "I can't see how a fan could think like that. The only thing on my mind is beating Toronto tonight." Well, that's what the Pistons do. They beat Toronto, and they win 40 games a season. If you don't want to end up like them, what's your plan?
Will, What did you think of that monster dunk by Carlos Rodgers and I was gonna take a ride down to D.C. but hakeem was not playing so i thought i would wait till he gets back.
Which Rogers dunk are you talking about? We saw one where Rogers was standing what looked like 8 feet from the basket, and he just reached up and windmilled the ball up and over his head with one long arm, and before we knew it, his hand was coming down over his man and over the basket and slamming the ball through. I would never have guessed he could have reached the hoop from where he was. I bet his man was surprised, too. Every once in a while I have to remind myself how tall Carlos is. He doesn't look nearly as long as Cato.
Will, Yes, Carlos has a surprising windmill dunk. TheFreak, I like some of the thought-provoking points you make. Jump in anytime, man. But know, the response tactic of picking apart someone's post one line at a time, will get picked apart as well. Will's right; you didn't stick out your neck with a solution to counter Popeye's...so the board is going to jab at you as well. Stick you neck out with an equally thoughtful solution next time. People won't chop it off. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited December 29, 1999).]
