glynch, after you take another hit from the hookah, deal with this simple notion... Whether or not we fought for oil, or to subdue Sodomy Hussein is no longer relevant. Militant extremists have declared war on your mother, your wife, your daughters. A terrorist tried to purchase a ****ing crop duster. A ****ing crop duster. God damn. This isn't about the US abandoning Israel. It isn't about us leaving Saudi Arabia. It's about us being infidels. If military action creates more of these people, so be it. The onus is on tomorrow's diplomacy to solve that problem. Today, a seldom used portion of diplomacy needs to be used.
Achebe, I largely agree with you. As you should have noted I have agreed from the beginning that we should get the guys who did this. It's never too early to start trying to win the peace after the war. It's never too early to stop overreacting. As far as the crop duster goes, I'm waiting for more proof as to what really happened. In a war like condition many in our government are willing to spread lies and rumors to fan the fires of hate if they think it will help the war effort. Doesn't mean it is happening now, but try not to panic. As an example, in Chile before the CIA aided in the assassination of Allende they helped spread rumors that Allende's government had arrested some conservative opponents ground them up and put them into the captital's meat supply. This little "psyop" drove the people bananas. One time in the 60's late at night om TV I saw an old World War II propaganda movie made in Hollywood; it hadn't been removed from the film library for some reason. It was so disgustingly racist it floored me. The dialogue was something like: "You don't understand. The Japs are not like you and I. Instead of having their children play with dolls they teach them how to kill and to maim animals." and so on.
You might say that a lack of Military action also creates more of "these people". On one of the roundtable-type shows, I saw a middle-east expert proclaming how the "aura" of the US has been destroyed. That they know that they can plunge a daggar into her heart. I feel like the only acceptable solution to this attack is to demonstrate that the price these and all future terrorists(and anyone who assists, supports, or even openly cheers them) will pay shall be so severe, so terrible, and utterly unbearable to both individuals and country that it discourages all but the most fanatical. It may not be to everyones taste, but it is the only formula to win a war. glynch, damn, quit with the Micheal Stivik-like rhetoric for a moment. I wonder how your position would have been effected if one of YOUR loved ones had been a victim. But you do have a point, the "heathen" are among us. Proof positive was displayed on Septemeber 11. I thought this quote one of my co-workers emailed me was worth noting. "On 11 Sept, they declared war on an enemy they hate. It is not just Americas foreign policy they hate, or her support of Israel, it is the very IDEA of us that they despise. The fact that their prefered targets are our wives and daughters, our husbands and sons, is chilling. The freedom we enjoy, in fact the very freedom they attacked, was bought and paid for by others who gladly exchanged their lives that we might enjoy it. American lives will be lost in this exchange, make no mistake, so will innocent civilians as they have in every great conflict in human histroy. We will mourn them and honor them for helping secure the American way of life for our own and all future generations."
OK, now I know I'm right. The 3rd Corps is deploying. As is the 10th Mountain Division. The 10th Mountain will fight in Afghanistan, my guess. They'd be perfect there, as that is the terrain and kind of war they train to fight in. They will just make that theater all the much more certain in its outcome... The 3rd Corps . The 3rd Corps is Armored. Well, 3 divisions of Armor and Mechanized Infantry. This is the type of stuff we used in the first Gulf War, although it was the 7th Corps then (we have two Armored Corps). We're talking over 60,000 combat troops, armored and armed to the teeth and trained to the razor's edge. These guys were designed to fight Soviet Armored Armies - the personnel are younger than that, but the organization, equipment, and training are still at that level. Incidentally, the 3rd Corps is pretty much useless in mountainous terrain. Over 60,000 combat troops. Over 1,000 tanks. Over 1,000 APCs and AIFVs. Hundreds of helicopters. Hundreds of artillery pieces, including MLRS (which can each spray an area with close to 7,000 bomblets at a time). This is the stuff you use to fight a powerful, armored, national army. The Taliban can have the 10th Mountain and our SF, with some Marines sprinkled in. The 3rd Corps is for Iraq. I guarantee it.
Addenda: We're now deploying 6 full Divisions, plus an Armored Cavalry Regiment (like a small Division), plus at least 4 and possibly 6 Marine MEU-SOCs (each centered around a Marine Rifle Regiment), and at Camp Lejune word is that a Marine Division is being fully mobilized. That's alot of ground power. It's more than we deployed to the Gulf in 1991, to put things into perspective.
