OK, now you're in the "complete idiot" status. Whiner? Everything else you said is irrelevant. Nice going. We have a winner! Tell him what he's won, Bob: The Ignore List! BTW, Sefko, why are you using What as a user name?
Buddy, read my first post. I conceded 1995 before you thought about using it as evidence of Hakeem's greatness offensively. Second, as to his "moves" read post above this one. Yes, he had unreal moves, but moves and offense aren't always together, as you would know if you actually watched all the games you say you have. Really man. I love hakeem. But hakeem had flaws just like everybody else.
Yes, he was and you should know that. Hakeem was extremely high maintenance especially when he and sampson played together. I can't remember the details of the rif between the two, but I believe hakeem basically demanded that he was the one to play the center position over sampson.
You said you think Dirk is a better offensive player than Hakeem Olajuwon. How are "moves" not part of offense? Offense is anything you do to get the ball in the basket. You're confusing "offense" with "shooting." Would you say, conversely, that defense is only about blocking shots or steals? Moves are most certainly part of the offensive repertoire. Are the moves used to score? Most definitely. Again, you're speaking of "shooting." Does Dirk have a better pure shot than Hakeem did? Sure. So did Alex English, George Gervin, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Jeff Hornacek, and so on. Were they better offensive players than Hakeem? No. You said "offense," you created the hole.
no I am speaking of scoring. you can dream shake and then do a turn a round fadaway, fall away jumper and it is open and then miss. Man, there were many a night I would be like no no no no, yes! Hakeem thought he could make anything. Rudy had fits with him.
and he is still inarguably one of the ten greatest players of all time. you make it sound like the guy was simply lucky on offense. he was fantastically devastating on both sides of the ball and even better in the playoffs. for someone who keeps saying how big a fan you are of dream you sure sound like you've never watched him in your life.
You know, even if that were to be true, which it isn't- didn't you take Logic in college? You argue about Dirk being a better offensive player than Hakeem, then it's "plus he was a whiner," which really seals the deal. Let's see, Hakeem was a whiner, so of course that makes Dirk better offensively. Solid. Let's review: Premise: Dirk is better offensively than Hakeem. Supporting Point: Dirk shoots over 2 people, and Hakeem... oops, next point. Supporting Point: Hakeem was a whiner, and Dirk is... oops, next point. Wait, is this point even supportive of an offense-related argument? Supporting Point: Hakeem went 3 quarters in games without scoring, and Dirk..damnit, next point. Supporting Point: Dirk shoots 3 pointers. Yes! Yes! There it is!! I've got my point. Really, to say that Dirk is a better (not that he's not good, or great, mind you, I'm sticking to the original premise) offensive player than Hakeem is... ...offensive.
Man I do love hakeem and there would have been a time were I would have been hero worshiping right also with everybody else. Especially after 2 championships. Hakeem also fasted and he was still the best player on the floor most every night. I remember all of that.
But again, what does that have to do with an "offensive" argument? Jordan wasn't the best pure shooter of his era. Was he the best offensive player? Yes, I think you could definitely make that argument. Dirk is what he is- the best pure shooting big man in the game today. Based on field goal, 3-point, and especially free throw percentage. I don't have a problem with him at all- my wife's German and I'm forced to occasionally watch Mavericks games when they don't play the Rockets (ugh). I got no problem with Dirk at all. But he's not better offensively than Hakeem.
Dirk would not be unguardable if Olajuwon were in the league. Hakeem had the best footwork for a big man and jumping ability not only the first jump, but if he had to jump twice he could still get up there. And somehow I doubt dirk could return the defense on the other end.
"You could make a strong argument for Hakeem being the best. When you look at him and really watch the things he does, it becomes apparent that he's a combination of the great ones. He's got the strength of a Chamberlain, the quickness of a Russell, and the shot-making ability of an Abdul-Jabbar...some of his athletic feats as a rookie were just awesome. By his second year, Hakeem had jumped from a 20.6 scoring average to 23.5. He was like a kid in a candy store, because he no longer had to deal with the zone rules that shackle a big man's offensive maneuverability in college...Hakeem had the freedom to use his one-on-one skills- and nobody could stop him..." Rudy Tomjanovich, "A Rocket at Heart," pages 169-171.
Interesting...does this mean that Hakeem's offensive output would have been less had a zone already been allowed? (Personally, I don't think so, but by that line of reasoning it sounds like it's possible.)
Possibly- which I'm sure What will use as an argument to prove that Dirk is better than Dream OFFENSIVELY. But, then again, we can say, "What if Dirk played in the same era as Dream? Would he be as good?" Who knows? Based on statistics and actual play, I think it's safe to say that Dream was better. If What wants to argue about When or Why or Who, that's his choice. But my argument for "Better Offensive Player" being Hakeem>Dirk is based on What, not How. So What can take the How argument and throw it out the You-Know-What. Just kidding, What. I'm maturationally challenged.
Sefko: "Dirk will be better than Dream." Dream: *swat* "Get that weak **** out of here!" Calvin Murphy: "And that's another one for the Texas Youth Academy!" Walton: "What HOOORRIBLE shot selection! Eddie Sefko daring to challenge the heights of greatness ... failing miiiiiserably, tumbling down the mountain to find himself still a rookie after all these years."
Can Dirk survive without flopping and preferential ref treatment? Can Dirk take on waves of double and triple teams and still score consistently? Can Dirk erase his team-mates defensive lapses? Can Dirk make an MVP look second rate? Can Dirk challenge guards on the perimeter without looking like a turnstile? Has he ever tried guarding Shaq? Has he got a quadruple double? Has he ever led the league in a major statistical category? Dirk is one of the best perimeter players today- no arguments. Hakeem is a legend and is a member of the G.O.A.T club.
Yes Yes Yes, but not nearly as good as Hakeem Oh yes, most definitely. Proof: Yes Yes No Well, he is the first since Bird who will end the season with > 25 pts, .500 fg/.900ft Yes Yes
Altough i believe Nowitzki is not comparible to Dream(since Dream is in its own league). I think that people on this board are a bit overnegative towards Nowitzki. I liked Dirks game ever since he came to the league(and when the dallas big three started to develop Dallas was one of my favorite teams in the nba). he is a great player. and a definite MVP candidate. But like i said Nowitzki is not in the same league as Dream.
Sefko is the one who needs to be inflamed here. Of course, Dirk is one heck of player, but its like comparing Tracy with Jordon. McGrady is great but Jordon is a level above. But what shouldn't blur us from seeing is that both Dirk and McGrady are great players in their own right, irrespective of their relative standing to Jordon and Hakeem. Judging by how Amare is doing right now, I see no know reasons why young Hakeem, never mind the dominant one, can't put up 25+ in this league. Of course, people will find ways to say Hakeem can only dunk and its all Nash's pass .
