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"Young Islamic Graduates Get Their Degrees in Terrorism"

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by Manny Ramirez, Sep 25, 2001.

  1. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    The following article appeared in the Sunday Tennessean on September 16, 2001. It was written by Jeffrey Goldberg of the New York Times Magazine. I tried to find a link but had no luck. This is the first chance that I have had to really sit down and type this article out. There is a little disclaimer at the beginning:
    This timely piece was first published July 25, 2000 in the New York Times Magazine. Therefore, it does not take into account the fact that Pakistan agreed on September 15, 2001 to cooperate with any U.S. response to Tuesday's attacks.

    Now on to the article:

    About two hours east of the Khyber Pass, in the North-West Frontier Province of Pakistan, alongside the Grand Trunk Road, sits a school called the Haqqania madrasa. A madrasa is a Muslim religious seminary, and Haqqania is one of the bigger madrasas in Pakistan: The school enrolls more than 2,800 students.

    The Haqqania madrasa is, in fact, a jihad - or holy war - factory. This does not make it unique in Pakistan. There are 1 million students studying in the country's 10,000 or so madrasas, and militant Islam is at the core of most of these schools.

    Tuition, room and board are free; the students are, in the main, drawn from the dire poor, and the madrasa raises its funds from wealthy Pakistanis as well as from devout, and politically minded Muslims in the countries of the Persian Gulf. The students range in age from 8 and 9 to 30, sometimes to 35.

    In a typical class, the teachers sit on the floor with the high-school and college-age boys, reading to them in Arabic, and the boys repeat what the teachers say. This can go on between four and eight hours each day.

    Very few of the students at the Haqqania madrasa study anything but Islamic subjects. There are no world history courses or math courses or computer rooms or science labs at the madrasa.

    Haqqania is notable not only because of its size but also because it has graduated more leaders of the Taliban, Afghanistan's ruling faction, than any other school in the world, including any school in Afghanistan. The Taliban is today known the world over for its harsh interpretation of Islamic law, its cruelty to women and its kindness to terrorists - the most notable one being Osama bin Laden, 44, the Saudi exile whom the American government believes was behind the 1998 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania and is now behind the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington.

    The Taliban also seems to harbor a deep belief in the notion of a never-ending jihad.

    The majority of Haqqania students come from Pakistan itself, a fact that worries officials in Washington and Moscow and New Delhi and Jerusalem.

    Pakistan's Islamists are becoming more and more radicalized - "Talibanized", some call it - thanks in part to madrasas like Haqqania.

    Pakistan also happens to be in possession of nuclear weapons. Many Muslim radicals say they believe these weapons should become part of the arsenal of jihad. It turns out that many of the Haqqania students, under careful tutelage, now believe it, too.

    FIRST DAY OF 'SCHOOL'

    It is for all these reasons that on a hazy morning in March, I presented myself at the office of the chancellor of the madrasa, a mullah named Samiul Haq, to enroll myself in his school. My goal was simple: I wanted to see from the inside just what this jihad factory was producing.

    The chancellor is a friend and supporter of bin Laden, and he is also a politician, a former senator. His party, Jamiat-Ulema-Islami (JUI), aims to impose Shariah, or Islamic law, in Pakistan. The goal: to see Pakistan become more like the Afghanistan of his Taliban disciples.

    Haq is in his mid-60s. He has two wives and eight children, he told me, and he seemed, right from the start, a very happy man.

    "The problem," he told me through an interpreter, "is not between us Muslims and Christians. The only enemy Islam and Christianity have is the Jews. It was the Jews who crucified Christ, you know. The Jews are using America to fight Islam."

    "I'm Jewish," I told him. There was a moment's pause.

    "Well, you are most welcome here," he said. And so I was. I could spend as much time as I wanted at the madrasa, go wherever I wanted, talk to anybody I chose, even study the Koran with him. What was in it for Haq? He had a point he wanted to make, of course: His madrasa might be Taliban U., but it was not a training camp for terrorists.

    Strictly speaking, Haq was right: I never saw a weapon at the Haqqania madrasa. The closest guns could be found across the Grand Trunk Road, at the Khyber Pass Armaments Co., a gun store that sells shotguns for $40 and AK-47s for $70. And I never heard a lecture about bomb making or markmanship.

    On the other hand, when the Taliban was faring badly in battle against rebel foes of the Taliban, Haq closed down his school and sent the students to the front. (He would not tell me how many never came back from the front.)

    AN AUSTERE EXISTENCE

    Classrooms were full when I visited Haqqania. There were no TVs, no radios that I could see. The students woke up before dawn to pray in the madrasa's mosque. The dormitories were threadbare and filthy, and there was no cafeteria, per se: Students lined up at the kitchen with their plates and spoons and were fed rice and curries and nan, the flat Afghan bread.

    Suffice it to say, the students at the madrasa almost never see women. There were no female teachers, no female cafeteria workers, no female presence whatsoever at the madrasa. There is no such thing as parents' day or family day when mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers come to visit.

    The youngest students interested me particularly. They seemed to incorporate the politics of the madrasa into their play. Two 11-year-old boys, both Afghan refugees, would follow me around wherever I went. They wore pots on their heads, and their version of hide-and-seek was to jump out from behind a tree or some other hiding place, scream "Osama!" and pretend to shoot me.

    I tried to learn what I could about these boys, but they were reticent. And my minders - there was usually someone from Samiul Haq's office with me - didn't want me probing too deeply. The youngest boys were kept under lock and key, in a three story dormitory guarded by older students, and I wasn't allowed to see how they lived.

    For the two 11-year-old refugees, the madrasa is a palace compared to refugee camps, and they are blessed to be here, where they eat food every single day.

    During the school day, I would make a special point of auditing classes in which the Hadith, or teachings of the Prophet Mohammed, was studied because so much of Islamic thought is found in the Hadith, and also because the Hadith has traditionally been understood to be a text open to interpretation, argument and rigorous intellectual inquiry. But such is not the case at the Haqqania madrasa.


    I will continue this article in another post...coming up, Goldberg challenges the students with statements on their hero, bin Laden.
     
  2. Achebe

    Achebe Member

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    Thanks Manny! 'Tis a great read so far.
     
  3. RichRocket

    RichRocket Member

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    Pervez Hoodbhoy: "Only a fool can believe that the services of a suicidal terrorist can be purchased, or that they can be bred at will anywhere. Instead, their breeding grounds are in refugee camps and in other rubbish dumps of humanity, abandoned by civilization and left to rot."

    Yeah, sure.
     
  4. Nolen

    Nolen Member

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    I'm sorry, but the award for Biggest Balls in the Universe has to go to this guy. I am in awe.

    You show up at a school in Pakistan which trains future militant extremist Islamic terrorists, and what's the first thing out of your mouth?

    "I'm Jewish."

    Amazing.
     
  5. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Rich Rocket the article on the madrascas? says:
    the students are, in the main, drawn from the dire poor

    So again you fail to make your point. These are not middle class Paksitani youth who are being indoctrinated.
     
  6. RichRocket

    RichRocket Member

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    glynch: these poor kids are relocated to this school/camp and given a life of relative luxury (i.e. food every day) and he says that they are not purchasing those services. That is just not true.

    Agreed they are not middle class, but they are still being bought otherwise wouldn't they provide the food out of the goodness of their heart?
     
  7. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    Goldberg's article continued:



    CHALLENGING THEIR HERO

    In the classes I attended, even the high-level classes, the pattern was generally the same: a teacher, generally an ancient, white-beared mullah, would read straight from a text, and the students would listen. There was no back and forth. It seemed as if rote learning was the madrasa's only style of learning.

    After a time, I began to be asked questions during classes, questions about America and about my views. One day, in a class devoted to passages in the Hadith concerning zakat, or charity, I was asked my views on Osama bin Laden. Why did America have it in for him? It is unsettling, to say the least, to be seated in a class being held in a mosque, led by a mullah, and attended by some 200 barefoot and turbaned students, and be asked such a question.

    I began by saying that bin Laden's program violates a basic tenet of Islam, which holds that even in a jihad, the lives of innocent people must be spared. A jihad is a war against combatants, not women and children.

    I read to them an appropriate saying of the Prophet Muhammad (I came armed with the Hadith): "It is narrated by Ibn Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles, so the Messenger of Allah, may peace be upon him, forbade the killing of women and children."

    They did not like the idea of me quoting the Prophet to them, and they began chanting, "Osama, Osama, Osama." When they calmed down, they took turns defending bin Laden. "Osama bin Laden is a great Muslim," a student named Wali said. "The West is afraid of strong Muslims, so they made him their enemy."

    I decided to ask a question of my own. I brought up the subject of Pakistan's nuclear bomb. I asked the students if they thought it would be permissible, by the law of Islam, to use a nuclear bomb during the prosecution of a jihad.

    "All things come from Allah," one student said. "The atomic bomb comes from Allah, so it should be used." I then asked: Who wants to see Osama bin Laden armed with nuclear weapons? Every hand in the room shot up. The students laughed, and some applauded.

    But, I said, innocent people would inevitably die if the bomb was used. Even if the West, or Russia, is subjugating Muslims, does that give bin Laden and his supporters the right to kill innocent people?

    "Osama has never killed anybody innocent," one student, whose name was Ghazi, answered.

    "What if you were shown proof that he did?"

    "The Americans say they have proof, but they don't give it to the Taliban."

    "What if," I asked, "you were shown a video in which Osama bin Laden was actually seen murdering a woman. What then?"

    There was a pause. A student named Fazlur Razaq stood up: "The Americans have all the tricks of the media. They can put Osama's head on the body of someone else and make it seem like he's killing when he's not doing it."

    I then took from my notebook my secret weapon: the 1998 fatwa issued by bin Laden's organization - the International Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders - concerning the presence of American troops in Saudi Arabia.

    I read them a passage, the English translation of which reads as follows: "The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies - civilians and military - is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the Al Aska Mosque and the holy mosque from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim."

    Here it is, I said, in black and white: bin Laden calling for the death of all Americans, civilian and military.

    "Osama didn't write that," one student yelled, and the others cheered. "That's a forgery of the Americans."

    I asked one final question: What would you do if you learned that the CIA had captured bin Laden and was taking him to America to stand trial? A student who gave his name as Muhammad stood up: "We would sacrifice our lives for Osama. We would kill Americans." What kind of Americans? "All Americans."

    As I left the mosque, Muhammad and a group of his friends approached me. "We'd like you to embrace Islam," he said. "We love you. We want you to have Islam."

    PROUD TO DIE AS A MARTYR

    Later that day, I met with a small group of students I had grown to like, hoping that, away from their teachers, they would talk a different talk. Meeting students out of class had already made for a number of interesting moments: I had, for example, been asked for sex. Many of them were convinced that all Americans are bisexual, and that Westerners engage in sex with anything, anywhere, all the time.

    Among the young men I spoke with after the Osama colloquy, there was no talk of sex. One, a bright and personable student from a village near Kabul, had told me his name was Sayid. I asked him how his parents felt to have him at the madrasa, knowing that there is a chance he would choose to be a mujahed - against the northern rebel alliance or perhaps against India, in Kashmir.

    "They support the jihad," he said.

    "How would they feel if you were killed?"

    "They would be very happy," he said. "They would be so proud. Any father would want his son to die as shaheed," or martyr.

    If you fought against the northern alliance, you would be killing Muslims, I said. "They're Muslims, but they're crazy," Sayid replied.

    BIRTHDAY PARTY FOR A BOMB

    A couple of days later, I was due in Islamabad, the capital, for a birthday party, and it was quite a party. A big cake, lots of speeches, lots of dignitaries, including Gen. Pervez Musharraf, the head of Pakistan's government.

    Written in lemon frosting across the length of the cake were the words, "Second Anniversary Celebrations of Youm-e-Takbeer."

    Youm-e-Takbeer can be translated as "the day of God's greatness," and in Pakistan it refers to May 28, 1998, the day Pakistan first exploded a nuclear bomb. The birthday party, under the auspices of Pakistan's military leader, was a birthday party for the bomb.

    "We bow our heads to Allah almighty for restoring greatness to Pakistan on May 28, 1998," proclaimed the science minister of Pakistan, Atta-ur-Rahman.

    A couple of days after the party, I went to Rawalpindi, next door to Islamabad, because I'd been given the chance to talk with Musharraf. We met one morning at Army House, the residence of the Pakistani army's chief of staff.

    Should the West worry that fundamentalist Muslims, in or out of the army, might get hold of Pakistan's nuclear weapons, I asked the Pakistani leader. (In Pentagon exercises, American war-gamers have mapped out a scenario in which Taliban-like extremists gain control of Pakistan's atomic arsenal during a violent break-up of the country.)

    "Absolutely implausible," Musharaff said. "There is no question of that happening. There is no question of nuclear material falling into the hands of irresponsible people at all."

    I made mention of the religious overtones of the Youm-e-Takbeer celebration, particularly the science minister's remarks, saying that Westerners are discomforted by the belief that God is the founder of Pakistan's nuclear weapons program.

    "Yes, we do use the term 'Allah's will,' " he said. "We do consider God to be the supreme sovereign, and we do consider ourselves to be his representatives on earth....But when we say 'the will of God,' that doesn't mean we aren't using our brains, that we are trigger-happy fundamentalists."

    AN ISLAMIC WAR AND PEACE

    For Samiul Haq, the world is divided into two separate and mutually hostile domains: the dar-al-harb and the dar-al-Islam. The dar-al-harb is the "abode of war." The dar-al-Islam is the "abode of peace."

    In the 1980s, the Soviet Union epitomized, for fundamentalist-minded Muslims, the abode of war.

    Today it is the United States that symbolizes the dar-al-harb. How this came to pass, how America, which supported - created, some would say - the jihad movement against the Soviets, came to become the No. 1 enemy of hard-core Islamists is one of the more vexing questions facing American policy makers and the leaders of a dozen Muslim countries today.

    One school of thought, Samiul Haq's school, says it's the Americans' fault: American imperialism and the export of American social and sexual mores are to blame. They believe the West is implacably hostile to the message of Islam, and so the need to prepare for jihad is never-ending.

    The other school of thought holds that Islam, by its very nature, is in permanent competition with other civilizations. This is the theory expounded by the Harvard political scientist Samuel Huntington, who coined the term "Islam's bloody borders" - a reference to the fact that wherever Islam rubs up against other civilizations - Jewish, Christian, Hindu - wars seem to break out.

    "Jihad" is a concept widely misunderstood in the West. It does not mean only "holy war." It essentially means "struggle," including the military struggle against those who subjugate Muslims. That has assumed a place of permanent, even overriding importance.

    I asked him if this is what he is teaching his thousands of students. "My students are taught Islam. This isn't a military school."

    Haq's secret was not that Haqqania madrasa is a training camp for terrorists. The secret is embodied in the two 11-year-olds cocking their fingers at me and in the taunts of the students in the mosque who raised their hands for Osama bin Laden and in the hundreds of thousands of young men at madrasas across Paksitan and Afghanistan.

    These are poor and impressionable boys kept entirely ignorant of the world, and, for that matter, largely ignorant of all but one interpretation of Islam.

    They are the perfect jihad machines.

     
  8. Achebe

    Achebe Member

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    Damn Manny. That's a great read. Thanks so much for typing all of that out.

    On a sad note, this reading of brainwashed little haters reminds me so much of South Carolina. If you erased the quotes illustrative of homicidal tendencies and anglicized the names, I would have completely mistaken these children for little kids in the Bible Belt... say 15-20 years ago.

    On a serious note... are there normal people in Afghanistan or in Pakistan? I fear we should take over the region. I also fear there's no way to avoid WWIII. WTC and the Pentagon were flashes in a pan compared to the hate that I infer in the quotes of these children.
     
  9. kirkit

    kirkit Member

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    speaking of mudrasas, i visited pakistan this summer and a lot of these madrasas are popping up everywhere. the reason is (exactly what the article mentions) that there are way too many poor people in pakistan that cannot afford school so they go to these madrasas. now we have friggin mullahs teaching there who think they know about islam, but they really dont. they make these children hate. even i hated the mudrasas. in fact, my cousins house was right next door to the mudrasa, and those dudes complain alot, especially when we played music too loud. another interesting thing about mudrasas are that they are being formed all over the country illegally. this is because they are not supposed to be opened in residential areas. but on every residential street corner, you see a mudrasa.
    my dad also mentioned that the pakistani government wanted to include regular teachings in the mudrasas like science and social studies but the friggin mullahs were stupid and thought the gov was forcing western ideas on them. FRIGGIN MULLAHS!!.:mad:
     
  10. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Excellent article Manny. A great contribution to the board.
     
  11. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    Achebe,
    Thanks for the kind words. I had read rockHEAD's link to the Taliban 2 weekends ago and was telling my parents about it. It was then that my father told me about this article. I read it and I was just dumbfounded. I desperately searched for a link but could never find one. It was a b**** to type it out, but I thought it was a great article to share. I also didn't want to type it out because I'm a lazy f***er!:D
     
  12. Mango

    Mango Member

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    <A HREF="http://www.jammu-kashmir-facts.com/inside_jihad_university1.htm">Is this the story you looked for?</A>


    Mango
     
  13. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    This is exactly why we need to go take down the taliban, we have to educate and rebuild these countries and let the children realize that we are not the enemies that they think we are.

    Dadakota
     
  14. Cohen

    Cohen Member

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    I saw some CNN video from a visit to what must have been one of these schools. This one was financed by bin laden. All of these young teens were ready to lay down their lives against the US.

    Very disturbing that there are so many lost souls. Do they really think that God-Allah created all of this for them to go around murdering, or getting themselves killed?
     
  15. treeman

    treeman Member

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    Just think about the concept of educational factories.

    The West turns out engineers, mathematicians, psychologists, computer scientists, environmental biologists, political scientists, chemists, medical doctors... And those that fail these programs usually turn out to be good techs.

    The Arab/Islamic world turns out clerics and suicide bombers. They haven't had a noteworthy engineer since the 13th century.

    Right now children - little kids who don't really even understand the concept of death - are being prepped for hatred of the West. They are being taught that if Israel and the US didn't exist, then this would be a perfect Islamic world. They are being taught that it is alright to kill infidels. Koran says that, of course, but what the children are not told is that both Christians and Jews are "of the Book" and are not infidels - only atheists are really infidels, according to Mohammed. Christians and Jews are "of the Book", but are just misguided, and need to be saved - not killed. They are not told that part...

    Arafat is not even in control of his apparatus any longer. Hamas in particular has taken over (at least the West Bank). Little Palestinian children are being taught at a very - VERY - young age that killing Jews and Christians is a good measure to sacrifice one's life for. From the terrorist's point of view, strap a bomb on a kid, and send him into a cafe, train station - anywhere that's populated - and you've done good. You created a young martyr without getting yourself killed.
     
  16. DREAMer

    DREAMer Member

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    treeman,

    You must've missed out on all of our recent racism threads.

    That is about as racist a comment as you can make.

    Your moniker "treeman" suits you well, you have yet to evolve from tree dwelling mammals.
     
  17. treeman

    treeman Member

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    It's a generalization DREAMer. A very broad one. I think it's accurate, as far as any generalisation can be.

    Extremist Islamic militants literally want to destroy Western Civilization. That is pretty much their stated aim. They want to reverse 700+ years of Western advancement. Bin Laden is calling it a Crusade, and that's no coincidence. The last crusades (real crusades) ended 700+ years ago (no one knows exactly when they ended) with the presursor Turk muslims taking back Jerusalem. The Holy Roman Empire couldn't defeat them. The Spanish Moors still persist... Basque.

    But the opponents to this war keep pointing to a more recent date: 1948. What happened then, DREAMer?

    (unsolicited quiz - no multiple choice)

    :D
     
  18. treeman

    treeman Member

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    Point being, the Arabs want to destroy Israel. There's pretty much no denying that, since it is a stated aim of every country that we have not forced into a peace with both of us.

    The Camp David Accords (the Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt) were both bought and forced. It is a little known fact that we maintain a credible military force in the Sinai to uphold that peace. We also gave Egypt a s*itload of $ and military aid, far exceeding that of Israel.

    A similar deal with Jordan was worked our earlier this decade. King Abdullah is basically an American, so I have no doubt in Jordan's loyalty...

    That leaves Syria, Iran, and Iraq. And UAE, Saudi, and Yemen. And Bahrain. And Algeria and Libya, if you want to go that far West.

    So far only the UAE/Bahrain is cooperating. We're moving heavy forces into Kuwait. That should spell out on broad letters what's about to happen. Screw the Saudis.
     
  19. DREAMer

    DREAMer Member

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    Modern Israel was created by a land grant from the British after WWII for displaced Jews.

    It's a BS generalization. The "West" churns out idiots, psychos, killers, etc. at the same rate as any other civilization (including the Arabic/Islamic cultures).

    Arabic/Islamic cultures also produce intelligent successful people from all different areas of learning at the same rate as other cultures.
     
    #19 DREAMer, Sep 26, 2001
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2001
  20. treeman

    treeman Member

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    Modern Israel - Balfour Declaration. Correct. You win a prize... Knowledge. You've already got some, so I'll keep mine until it's specifically asked for.

    (BTW the Balfour Declaration was initially made in the '20s - before the Holocaust)

    The West turns out plenty of idiots. But how many of those idiots take to the streets and bur
    n in effigy our President? Shouting "Osama is Hero" and "Osama is Saviour" while doing it???

    There's something wrong with that, and don't try for a second to convince me that we brought it on ourselves.

    Militant Islam has become its own religion. And we are going to destroy it.
     

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