Excerpts from a USA today article...U.S. takes on war-hardened Taliban it helped create And the Taliban forces, while small and poorly equipped, do have three significant advantages: They will be fighting on their own territory, they have the moral support of many of the world's 1 billion Muslims and they believe they are doing the will of God. Taliban troops — most U.S. analysts say there are 50,000 to 60,000 — have been hardened by their battles with the dwindling Afghan opposition, which controls only 10% of the country. Pakistani intelligence officials say the Taliban is already deploying tanks and troops along its border with Pakistan and digging trenches from which they expect to fight members of the U.S. Special Forces who will be charged with trying to capture or kill bin Laden. Some Taliban soldiers appear ready. "We are fighting for God," said Jawad Abd Rahman, a 31-year-old Taliban soldier. He left Afghanistan Sunday to escort his wife and six children to a Pakistani-run refugee camp here in the border city of Peshawar. Rahman, who said he was trained in one of bin Laden's camps in Afghanistan from March to early September, said he plans to return to the Afghan city of Kandahar — a Taliban stronghold — today to prepare for battle. "This is a holy crusade to kill the infidels," he said. "It will be a dream come true to fight and kill an American. Whatever happens to me from then on will not matter. I will have lived." The Taliban may still have several Stinger anti-aircraft missiles provided by the U.S., though Barnett Rubin, an Afghanistan expert at New York University, says they're probably not in working order. They may have stockpiled some Russian-made missiles as well. The authoritative Jane's Information Group says the Taliban arsenal also includes about 650 aging tanks and armored vehicles, perhaps 10 combat helicopters, about 15 warplanes and another 40 cargo planes left over from the Soviet era. The entire article can be found at http://www.usatoday.com USA Today changes its links so much that I won't provide an actual link.
""This is a holy crusade to kill the infidels," he said. "It will be a dream come true to fight and kill an American. Whatever happens to me from then on will not matter. I will have lived." " Unbelievable what people can be tricked into believing. Truly sad. What despicable leaders they have.
The same quote struck me Ty_Webb. I can hardly believe that anybody would truly think such a thing. This has to be ended. And somehow, we have to prevent misunderstandings of such a tragic order from ever happening again. In an age where a few fanatics can kill thousands (or more) there's so little room for error. Or hated, for that matter.
haven -- I'm with you...this has to have pinpoint precision...and needs to be clearly indicated that this is not a war against Islam at all!! It's a war against terror and fear.
Haven I'm with you, too--believe it or not. That is why we need to think so clearly about how we eliminate Bin Laden and his terror cells. Doing it the wrong way will create more of these brain washed fanatics. One of the best way to support our troops is to think clearly and not let there be mission creep so they are not killed unecesssarily. I, too have one coworker I really like and my nieces' husband who have already been called up.
MM, that is why we have to ally with other nations in the Mid East, to SHOW this isn't USA vs. Muslims, it is USA vs. terrorists. On the other hand, they have made it clear that they HATE all AMERICANS. What an absolutely sickening group of people
My biggest question is this- These people (I mean the supporters of terrorist and Bin Laden in general) are so brainwashed, not only the ones in Afganistan but also the sleepers planted across the world. Is there anyway to show them the light or is the only option to wipe them out? Religion is so sacred, I don't know if there is any other way, I'm sorry to say.
In my 11th grade government class well over a decade ago I remember writing a term paper arguing why we should pour some Stingers and all our old Stinger-replaced Red Eyes into Afghanistan so they could take out Soviet aircraft. (Yeah, I know, I was caught up in a lot of cold war propaganda at the time.) It would be quite a sad and terrible irony if the weapons we gave them are now used against us. There may be some lessons here. We do not want to get in an all-out war with all of Afghanistan. The Soviets had a dismal failure there and they were in among their peak military years while also bordering those lands (easy to provide supplies and get ground support and armor right there). Trying to actually take over Afghanistan would be a huge mistake, a few Special Forces operations and plenty of surgical strikes very specific to Bin Laden his clearly (not loosely) linked supporters is the best military route to go.
I see people point out Russia's failure against Afghanistan as a reason the U.S. can't beat them, but there were a ton of underlining things in that war. The U.S. supported Afghanistan and helped them technologically, they wouldn't have won otherwise. They don't have any support now, outside of Iraq. Russia was ill-prepared. They may have been at their peak military wise, but they were arrogant and their plans weren't well thought out. The U.S. isn't just going to fight them with military power, they have cut off their trade routes, pulled out their medical assistance, killing their financial sources, and have allies of their own. The U.S. is also capable of hurting them from the inside. And the Stingers the U.S. gave them are so outdated compared to some of the planes they have that it probably won't make a difference. This is going to be a war unlike any that Afghanistan has ever seen. If they thought it was going to be a straight up fight they're in for a rude awakening.
Over the past couple of days it seems like I have encountered an increasing amount of rhetoric about brainwashing, about these people being fanatics, that they want to destroy civilization and/or freedom. I think this sort of thinking is counterproductive and perhaps dangerous. The members of Al Qaeda (which I'll use simply as short-hand for this group of people we are considering our enemies) are people -- regular, intelligent people. I think we can at least give them the respect that their beliefs are as genuine as ours. We may disagree with them and be locked in a rather permanent state of animosity with them. But, when you pigeon-hole them in this fashion, it has the effect of dehumanizing your conception of them -- they become actors with roles instead of people with convictions. I think the last time this country has really publically employed the word 'brainwash' was during (and after) the Vietnam War, as a means to explain why the great masses of that country were fighting us when we were trying to 'liberate' them from Communism. I've been hearing plenty recently that the Taliban don't have the support of their people and that they only hold power by force of arms. Well, I've seen people say that about a slew of governments now and it never really turns out to be so. One of my many fears over the current War on Terrorism is that we will try to 'liberate' the Afghan people from the Taliban only to find they don't want to be liberated either -- or, at least, not by us.
I would call trying to take over a country where not only don't know where the main foes are nor who they even are (tell who is freind from foe)to be a similarly arrogant strategy. The terrorists are not going to get well formed rows like the Royal Guard for us to take out. Myabe a few suicidal Taliban troops will, but not the main terrorists. We don't even know for sure that most of them (worldwide terrorists) are in Afganistan, we could nuke the whole country and not be sure we put a significant dent in terrorism. This is not a "war" we should be indiscriminant or arrogantly think it is going to be easy to reach our objectives.
I guess you could say the same thing about members of the KKK. "Regular, intelligent people". These "Regular, intelligent people" have such a hatred about the Great Satan that their dream is to kill Americans? I think I now know what it may have felt like to be an African-American back in the 1950s. I have to admit, I'm a little frightened by the comments. And after reading more Afghan comments the past few days, I'm not sure there are any innocent Afghans remaining - which makes the initial job easier. One of the greater problems is that there are 1000s that think the same thing in Pakistan and their government "supports" us so we can't do anything about them. All we can do is wait for a retaliation from these "Regular, intelligent people". And they are churning out 1000s of "Regular, intelligent people" that want to kill all Americans from there religous schools. If we do nothing, these "Regular, intelligent people" still want to kill us. They only way to stop these "Regular, intelligent people" is if we all become like them - radical muslem. Give yourself a shake man.
I never said these regular, intelligent people didn't want to kill us. I'm just saying you don't need to be crazy, or brainwashed, or a fanatic to want to.
I hope everyone is mentally prepared (if that's possible) for what the new few months will hold... No doubt the US + allies (includung us aussies) have enough military strength to win... HOWEVER...that doesn't disguise the fact we will lose people along the way...people will be killed. In the war v Russia...these guys used to get Russian soldiers and skin the poor bastards alive and then drag their bodies through the streets... To go down to ground level and take the Taliban on...things like that are going to occur to allied troops who get caught. It's the inevitable price that will be paid...
This is will only get worse. Im not afraid of dying but im afraid of having to kill another man, whether hes from afghanastan or istanbul. I feel the middle east propaganda will spread and when Iran, Iraq, Palestiene, Syria, and China run out of American flags to burn they'll jump into the fray. Then we'll have to really walk the talk, and you and me will be drafted and then no more backyard barbeques, and no more baseball, basketball games, no living it up in America guys-- freaking allah exploiting fanatics think their ambition to be spiritual is diffrent than the ambition to make money and be a success but they're wrong. They suppress their desires and only cause more conflict, freaking hypocrite sob's. They make their women wear robes over their faces in burning heat, so their petty selfs, their cowardly eyes will not be tempted to see a gorgeous creation - what utter nonsense!! They escape with God and put on a mask of austerity while we escape witih entertainment n' drink. If im drafted i'll fight because my illusion is better than theirs dammit!
<i>I would call trying to take over a country where not only don't know where the main foes are nor who they even are (tell who is freind from foe)to be a similarly arrogant strategy. </i> The United States isn't trying to take over the country, they are trying to go <i>through</i> it. That's why it's going to be hard. If they just wanted to go in and bomb it off the planet that wouldn't be a problem. And they don't want the country, if they would just step aside and let the United States through it wouldn't be a problem. This isn't going to be solely a military strike, there are a ton of other things involved.
ROCKETBOOSTER, China? China's economy is too closely tied to ours. Instability does not help them either, and they do not particularly care for unfettered Islamic fundamentalists near their borders. I'm sure that they also don't desire a 'nervous' United States.
rocketbooster, in islam, a woman covering herself doesn't necessarily mean that muslim men can't control themselves if they see skin. its just our way of presenting ourselves respectfully infront of each other (and god), although women dont have to cover their faces. and yes i know it doesn't sound fair, but thats our faith. so i can't help but feel offended to the part where you go 'what utter nonsense!! '. men cover from navel to knee. which is why i think hakeem wears knee pads. from what i know, showing the aurat (things you should cover) is sinful but not that big a deal. infact spreading lies and gossip is considered worse.
