i'm just not really in the mood for trading and firing coaches and owners and whomever. you can't create good chemistry when you're always changing the chemistry. i would rather wait and pick gems out of the draft than trade good players we have for somebody else's players. that way we don't have to get rid of valuable players in return for a player who might not fit in the system and drafting in my opinion disrupts chemistry less than a trade. i would thing it would be easier to "drop" a drafted player off a team easier than one that you trade for. less committment to the player. but, i could be wrong. let me know. doesn't involve as much money either at least at first...i think. okay. bye. [This message has been edited by WHAM! (edited December 17, 1999).]
I see no problem trading people that don't fit in the big picture. Don't get much in return. I would rather see Roderick Rhodes than Walt on the floor. He atleast fits the team concept.
I see no problem trading people that don't fit in the big picture. Don't get much in return. I would rather see Roderick Rhodes than Walt on the floor. He atleast fits the team concept.
i am more concerned about the people that are talking about trading someone like mobley for a mcgrady or whomever. we have young players who haven't reached their full potential yet and i don't like the idea of trading them before we even know what we really have especially for another player who hasn't reached full potential and may turn out to be a bust.
I pretty much agree with WHAM!. The organizations that have large amounts of turnover each year are the ones that are not usually successful. Having said that, I have a reasonable amount of faith that Rudy & Co. will assemble the team in a wise manner. Therefore I usually consider trade speculation a waste of time. 99% of the stuff that's talked about on this board never happens.
WHam, I agree. No way do you consider letting Mobley go. For what ? Someone else's under achiever ? His upside potential, as they say, is very good. Also, on Francis. His game, especially the middle of it, gives me great hope about where his game is headed. I was very impressed with his fearlessness, smart pasing decisions, ( mostly ), excellent shot select, and creative drives to the rim. He had SA spinning in thier shoes. Now if we can just learn to close out forth periods.... [This message has been edited by jscmedia (edited December 17, 1999).]
Well. I am not in favor of trading for trading sake. But, the point I am making in several posts is this: Do not under estimate what the effect of a losing season will have on the chemistry of young and talent players who have been winners all their life. Everyone of these guys (well,with maybe a couple exceptions) have been WINNERS all there lives. Mobley may opt to go somewhere else this summer when his contract is up. Stevie may start getting frustrated and caving in the game, forcing the pass, complaining to the media,etc... Cato cannot learn and advance to the next level, if he is in a losing environment. He's been there. He's got the T-shirt. Nuff said. T-Mass needs time to settle in and find a nitch to bring tha last of his couple of years in the NBA to a zenith. Not a valley of boohs and blahs. Shandon has bet his career on this move. You think he will be happy if the media is correct ... that we gave up on the season. We are not asking for miracles. Just a hope, an honest faith, a sign from management that we may have a chance to win in a competitive contest. If this were a real season. A real effort by management. An honest hope. A glimmer of a chance. Then we would be putting energy in getting some help where we all know it is needed. Dang, for the last three weeks of both McLean and Maloney's careers the front office "suits " went out of their collective way to ... 1. Let everyone in NBA land know that these guys either would be picked up in the next three weeks or we will give them away for nothing. Jeese, what would you wait for if you owned a team, and had half a brain???? 2. Gave Augamon and whats-his-name a chance to find nirvana so we could pay some other team to to let them score on us.Duh???? 'cuse me, is that another no brainer???? 3. Basically, slit our own throats and release two players that we would love to have now on our rosters, right now. Reason: Rudy says to make room. For who????? No matter what you really want to think. If you want to continue to ram and jam a round peg into a square hole, someone like me will continue to point out the obvious. Something simple must be done here.
As far as trades go, I think most fans including me are way more impatient than any good GM would be. However, considering that we are passing the torch now and changing offenses, I think a lot of our players don't fit with the vision of our young team (Williams, Bullard, Drew come to mind). If we could trade these guys for players that would fit the team better, I would be pleased. Also, I would prefer to keep Mobley, but if we can't, I would rather get something in return. As far as doing a big trade just for this season, I think that would be unwise considering Stevie and therefore the team's best years are ahead of us. If I'm correct, Shandon made comments upon joining the Rockets about growing with a young backcourt into something special - I don't think that sounds like a need to win this season. That's just my opinion.
Well as far as Shandon's comments are concerned they were made when we had a far different team than now. But I will leave that argument alone. Again, I am stating that we presently have an exemption, we have some moveable (tradeable) players available, we have Mack sitting on the sidelines. Any of these options can be utilized to show this team that the committment to be competitive exists in the heart of management. I see the focus is on rebuilding/retooling. I see the emphasis is on going mainly with the starters we presently have. I do not disagree with that approach. I also KNOW that this team needs to feel they are in a position to compete every night. As I said, the fact they may lose every game this season is not as important as knowing that they did everything possible to win every game and that management did everything in their power to put a competitive team on the floor. That is not happening right now. Management has got to show some balls. And they haven't. End of story. I have been involved in teams that were winners in all aspects of life. I have seen entire organizations crumble because the team got used to losing. This young team will be irreparably damaged if management not only does everything it can for them to win, but makes it clearly apparent that winning is the goal. Not lottery tickets. Not "saving" the best for next year. Not waiting until we have "some feet under us". Not planning to get set "next year" with "exceptions", exemptions, draft picks and a new roster of more guys "to help us carry the load".Not "waiting to see what this season brings". Everyone one of you out there, who has fallen back on the argument that some players would be willing to take less to play with a championship team. To play with championship hearts. To "play for Rudy". Well kiss that goodbye ... if management doesn't get behind this team and attempt to drag it up, screaming and hollering into the competitive circle we used to call RocketBall. In short, if we get a lottery pick, it better be because (1) the players continued to compete at their highest level but failed ... and (2) that managementcontinued to pursue wins by doing everything possible. It better not be because Les, CD, and Rudy decided to pull a Spur thing.
I would hope Rudy, Les and Carroll would not pull a "Spur thing". Yes, the Spurs got lucky and it paid off. But we all remember they tanked the season and it caused a loss of respect for the Spurs. Of course, that may not be what matters. I don't understand why McLean and Maloney weren't put on IR and no one else was picked up but that was done before anyone knew the Dream and the Chuckster would go down before the mid way mark of the season. Hasty, panicky trades won't help this young team gain confidence either. If an amazingly good trade were available for some of the players that don't make as much of an impact, I'm sure Rudy would jump on it. What other team is that kind of idiot? Don Nelson maybe. But I wouldn't trade our backcourt or a young player that hasn't had time to prove himself yet unless it were an exceptional trade that would not disrupt the team. There is no quick fix this time fellas. No Clyde Drexler or Charles Barkley dying to come here. I don't see a conspiracy. I don't see these young guys giving up - they are staying positive so far. And jumping to trade too quick will be a mistake. All that said, lol, I am not totally against some trade. I like talking about what is available. I guess the bottom line is we could make some improvements but probably waiting till Dream comes back (if there is time before deadline date)and seeing how the mix works then might be the better option. We look pretty good and are improving till then. GO ROCKETS!
I'm going to start suspecting a Spur thing if I see too many more Sportscenter highlights where Matt Bullard is guarding David Robinson in a tight game in the 4th quarter.
When it comes to Trades I have 2 main Requirements. MOBLEY GOES NO WHERE? [Read Shandon, Francis, etc] WALT IS ATTACHED! <-- he needs to go. [of course there untradable folx are always Imagine .. .If we could package Walt, Sam and the Barkley money . .. . I'd be happy as a clam [though I know the Barkley money probably won't be coming] good to imagine. Rocket River
How has management not shown any balls? They have done more in the last five years than any team's management to win! Remember the Drexler deal, the Barkley deal, the Pippen deal, the Francis deal. What do you want now? A Kobe Bryant deal? These trade RUMORS that have been thrown around are just that - rumors, speculation. It's not like any of these are actually on the table. Besides, the best players on paper don't always fit well with every team. I think management and the coaching staff are doing the right thing in being patient with the players they have now, staying in teaching modes, evaluating the team's needs, and then addressing these needs through the draft, trades, free agency, or whatever options are available to them. You can't ask for more than that.
Here's a headline... NO TRADES THIS YEAR!! end of story. Walt is not going to be traded and the Rockets are going to stay the same this year with what they have.
You know when it becomes hard to follow Popeyes reasoning, he's showing passion. That "square peg part" and "something simple" lost me. But, losing me on your reasoning means squat when I can hear you hammering on your keyboard demanding a winning attitude. Halleluhah: there is no other way. I think your hammering is starting to bring the "wait 'till next year" people back to their senses. Popeye mentions simple plans OK--I'll toss two out to any of us BBS dogs who want to go after it... 1. sit Cato down and tell him you are shipping him to the Clippers for Mo unless he starts listening to the coaches, and improving fundamentals. Send him to the land of no destiny and heart, if that's what he likes to bring out onto the court every other night. Hopefully, that'll wake him up. Simple plan number two: Light some fire under Hakeem. Not saying threats (he's got more self-drive than to be insulted by trade threats or PT threats), just somehow Rudy needs to ask him how he wants to be remembered by the NBA. Hakeem has a history since '95 of coasting during the season to be ready for the playoffs. Well that's not going to cut this year, and I believe Rudy needs to sit Hakeem down and remind him of that. The man can still play, he can still be a leader, and he can certainly make that winning defensive play or nail the last second 18 footer when the d collapses on a driving Francis. Hakeem: bring it on the court now. There is no playoffs this year or next if you don't. To me, what we want in the winning NOW attiuted, is simple: Rudy and Hakeem can affect that attitude more any other player and more than the "suits". If Rudy sees a player spreading a losing cancer through the locker room, he needs to tell the "suits" get this one out of my locker room. And for Olajuwon: just remind him at every turn what his last name means in Nigerian: "ALWAYS ON TOP". this is true I wonder if that how he got the hernia. hehe [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited December 18, 1999).]
Hey...my previous post just set a light off in my mind about the salary cap: Tell me if this isn't correct: If we trade Cato for Mo Taylor, and Mo doesn't show up with fire, we can rescind him in the summer, thus effectively freeing up the estimated $5.33m Cato was to make next year. This assumes Cato doesn't begin focusing on improving his lacking fundementals. Forget the complicated packages for Mo that involves no PFs on our part, but includes our "ace in the hole ... Sam Mack" as Popeye mentioned in another thread, which for reasons I don't understand is supposed to improve a deal, let's keep in simple: If Cato doesn't show willingness to improve defensively, do a straight-up for someone on their last year, who we can re-sign or rescind this summer based on performance. If they perform, great, if not, we free up Cato's $5.33m with $666k raises for 6 yrs. I'm putting Cato on the hotseat. Trade him for Mo, the Clippers are desparate to get something for him, then we can start over deciding whether we want to sign an extension for the big man or go to market. Similarly, we can do some dangling for Walt+others to a player on the last yr of contracts, who we can rescind and again, free up Walt's salary estimated at $5m next year. If we can pull off trading Cato and Walt for last contract yr players, that's over $10m in salary we can rescind this summer, in one swoop. There's a simple plan. With that said, I'm still with WHAM!, I'm hoping a winning attitude surfaces in Cato and Walt and we don't have to do any changes.
bballfanatic I don't see a conspiracy. Neither do I. What are you referring to? No conspiracy here. Rudy saying he wants a winning team. One that doesn't lose focus. Keep the team "in the hunt". Yet he bypasses obvious rotations, walks out of trade offers on players that could help this team this year. He says one thing and does another. Says this year will not be a wash, not be a waste. We will "stay competitive" (despite the injuries to Chuck and Hakeem) then talks about looking forward to the draft next summer. That's BS to me. oakdog Read my damn post if you want to have me or anyone take your reply seriously. 1. How has management not shown any balls? See below. See above. 2. They have done more in the last five years than any team's management to win! Your dated hyperbole does not impress me. Stop baiting your argument with this type of crap. Make your point. 3. Remember the Drexler deal, the Barkley deal, the Pippen deal, the Francis deal. Yeah, I remember, and except for the Francis deal, all others are dated and mean absolutely nothing to the present team's ability to evolve. Exceept maybe the management team's inability to be supportive of this couragous team. 4.What do you want now? A Kobe Bryant deal? Never suggested it. Would not take him for a rerun and some scrubs. He would hurt this team's efforts enormously. We don't need Kobe. God NO!!! Only a LaLa Lander would place that on a wish list for this young and talented team. We need some role players, some complimentry players and some help. Not superstars. You are not a LaLaLander are you? 5. These trade RUMORS that have been thrown around are just that - rumors, speculation. It's not like any of these are actually on the table. What exactly do you know about any trades? Actual or rumors? Let me guess: you either don't know about particular rumors and such, or you don't want to believe that trades, offers, and agreements exist in the NBA. Mmmmm, seems I have heard that before. First argument is self explanatory, you are pissed because someone never got around to telling you, so they don't exist for you. Okay. I can live with that,even if it is not true. The second, you must be extrememly naive to think that offers, agreements and player trade topics don't go on every day, all year long in most sports organizations. 6. I think management and the coaching staff are doing the right thing in being patient with the players they have now, staying in teaching modes, As far as teaching goes, every team with a coach worth his salt, teaches throughout the season. I don't disagree with that. What's your point? 7. evaluating the team's needs, This team has been evaluated and everyone from Golda Meir to Frank Sinatra knows what their needs are. Are you a politician? 8. and then addressing these needs through the draft, I finally figured out what you are trying to say. You want them to have an 82 game practice session. Lean on the draft this summer and come back next year. Smells like a Spurs fan. You a Spurs fan? 9. trades, free agency, or whatever options are available to them. Well that was exactly my point. Of course you don't believe this, but, there are several opportunities to fill this team's needs right NOW. Not for ever. Not eliminating the teams chemistry. Not stripping the team bare. Not wholesale changes. FILLING DAMN HOLES. That would mean giving this team a CHANCE to win. To be competitive so they FEEL like they have a CHANCE to WIN. The offers on the table for the last several weeks have been players that would answer some of our need areas. They have also vacillated over Mack long enough. They have suddenly turned off there phones. Re: don't talk to us we are losing and don't want to do anything about it. Huh? Just for the record. These are not merely rumors and speculation,treehound. 10. You can't ask for more than that. We sure as hell can!!! If this team is working it's tail off and getting only lip service from RT and management. You are damn right we have the right to ask for more. heyparatner That "square peg part" and "something simple" lost me. The axiom refers to attempting to do something obviously the wrong way, yet continuing to do it anyway. Rudy, et al ... CANNOT produce a team with a winning attitude, the desire to excel, the need to be competitive at all times ... without giving them the hope that regardless of what the final outcome ... they did everything they could to win it. In Conclusion My contention is simple. I do not feel the management is doing everything they can do, under the circumstance, to give this team the tools they need to FEEL THAT THEY ARE NOT LOSERS. In fact the longer Les/CD/RT trip over themselves doing nothing, management is confirming they have given up on the season. [This message has been edited by popeye (edited December 18, 1999).]
Popeye is absolutely right about Rudy putting the phones down and about management not doing anything for this year. I have heard of some things that could have been but someone or some people upstairs doesn't want to do anything. Which is why I said...NO TRADES THIS YEAR!! I would like something to happen though as much as Popeye suggested.
Popeye,I love the passion and the common sense.I especially like the square peg into the round hole part.............That just about sums it up!..........Time for RT,CD,and Les to do their part.This is an extremely crucial point in the life of our franchise.With the talent,heart,assets,and potential cap space we possess this season,no matter how tough it has been so far,this could turn out to be one of the most important seasons in Rockets history.Lets get moving brass! HH
Popeye, I'm going to preface my post by saying that I understand your reasoning about young athletes' psyches, but I think you overstate your point when you talk about irreparable damage to a young team. Great athletes, in all sports, have been drafted by losing organizations and in most cases have continued losing in the first few years of their careers. There are exceptions, of course, where losing teams immediately became contenders, ie. Alcindor, Bird, but those are rare. I just don't think great players internalize losing that easily into their personalities because they lose early in their pro careers. Discouraged? Yes. Irreparably damaged? No. [This message has been edited by grummett (edited December 19, 1999).]
