When you ignore the extremely large body of evidence which points that through all of nature, from little songbirds up through mankind, that homosexuality is biologicaly aquired through hormonal shifts in the womb, just because it doesn't fit neatly with your world view, then yes, I find that to be exactly the same thing as bigotry. If you would like me to provide you with many many articles from scientific journals, e-mail me and give me several days to properly accumulate the evidence. I can accept the fact that you feel that it is wrong based on your faith. But to ignore reality, that's the kind of thing that causes people to do irrational things. I can't see this as being a loving statement, attempting to help someone see the error of their ways. I may be wrong, but I see a clear fire-and-brimstone malace, a repressive, twisted, and whithered interpritation of the message of peace, carring, and love in both the Koran and the Bible. Did Jesus hang out with the protitutes and tax collectors, wait for them to catch a disease or get beat up, and then 'point a finger in their face and say, "You made this happen."'? While it may have been taken out of context, but I see this thinking as being one step away from blowing up abortion clinics, which as far as I can tell, is one little step away from car bombing the american embasy. Just down the street is flying a plane into the WTC. This type of statement poking its head through the veneer of Faldwells message of love, shows me that, like a worm-infested apple, Faldwell appears more or less like any other apple, but deep inside he is mealy, maggot filled, and rotten.
When I was going through confirmation at the Epsicopal Church, we talked about issues and the church's stance on them. Of course, homosexuality was one of them. I have to admit that I was pretty ignorant about homosexuals and I never believed that old argument, "they can't help it, they are born that way." I always felt that if God thought that this was wrong, then he wouldn't allow people to be born with something that they can't help. Now my priest is a former cardiologist, so being a man of the cloth as well as a man of medicine, he gave me an interesting take on this. He compared it to alcoholism. It's well-known that some people have a gene that makes them more susceptible to becoming an alcoholic compared to others. My father may very well be that way because alcoholism killed his father at the age of 54. When I was 4, he died. All I remember about him is that he was in a wheelchair as his legs were amputated because of an alcohol-related cause. My father has never even tested this theory out completely abstaining from alcoholic beverages. My priest felt that with love and support from a person's family, someone who is born with homosexual tendencies can fight these urges. Unfortunately, being a homosexual and being an alcoholic are not considered to even be close to being the same thing, and very few people probably would consider being a homosexual a disease like being an alcoholic. It is a very tough issue to deal with. I do not agree with their choice of lifestyles, but I'm not going to try to judge anybody, at least not intentionally. I do think, personally, that if research is shown that this is true, e.g. certain people who are born with homosexual tendencies, that the ones who are ashamed of being gay may have a chance to overcome this. Unfortunately, many people who are gay don't want to change and there are more and more promotions of not being ashamed to admit that one is gay, e.g. gay pride parades. It's really tough because people will not feel ashamed and feel that they are "sick" if they are told it's okay; however, to tell someone that would be a violation of their rights as a US citizen. It is almost as tough a situation as the one we are dealing with in terrorism. Once again, although I do not agree with their lifestyle, I am not against rights for gays. I just wanted to share a different viewpoint about homosexuality.
I think Falwell's comments are stupid. Having said that, many of you guys have been just as hateful as Falwell. You may not like it, but you have. Those of you who claim that guys like Falwell have no business judging people morally speaking, how is it that you can pass judgment on Falwell and not incur the same guilt? Are you not, in essence, doing the very same thing? Any idiot with an opinion can state their opinion...and many of them do.
I watched him say this Live...I do not detest the man, but I'm dissapointed. Hoping for MC Mark's safe return, Kim
http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m.../20010914/us/attacks_robertson_falwell_1.html Its national now , Uh Oh .
This is hilarious. Falwell like Bin Laden!!!!!!!! Since when does disapproval equal hate? All of you who in other posts will rush to insinuate that the US perpetrates wrong around the world now want to ridicule someone who feels that our national sinfulness may have contributed to our vulnerability here. You can't take everything everyone says so literally-- especially when it suits your purpose to trump up ridiculous charges against I guy with whom you don't agree. ROTFLMAO...
Hmmm, let's see. One espouses hate and intolerance, the other thinks "Days of Thunder" was one of the top 10 movies of 1990. It is indeed closer than I first suspected but I'm gonna take Falwell by a nose.
Falwell is a walking pile of ****. I can't believe that even the most right-winged members of this board could try and defend those sickening statements. THE MAN IS BLAMING GAY PEOPLE FOR THE HORRIFIC TERRORIST ATTACKS!!!!! Thousands dead! Famous landmarks lost. Half of Manhattan on the verge of collapsing, and this guy blames this on gay people, and feminists (!!!) How could you possibly defend that? This guy goes completely against what Christianity was supposed to be about. This man is WORSE than Bin Laden. I'm surprised that he hasn't been involved in bombings of his own. Same goes for Pat Robertson.
Jerry Falwell should crawl in a hole never to be seen again. Yes I'm conservative or right-winger (whatever you call it), I disagree with homosexual life, I'm not crazy about feminists, I believe in GOD, I shoot guns and eat squirrels but no way do I point a finger at anyone and say you did this blah, blah like he did. Those people are different from me but I respect their free-will and rights. To make this statement (especially now) is a sad, sad thing and I wish he wouldn't tarnish things I proudly stand for by associating with religion and aspects of conservatism.
I don't think it's as tough as that. All we want is to be able to live our lives in peace and have the same opportunities everyone else has. I don't understand how my sexuality affects you in any way at all other than making you uncomfortable. For what it's worth Manny, I didn't choose to be gay but I have accepted that it is who I am. I'm sorry that you feel we are as much a threat to you and to society as these terrorists are. For those who missed the article I posted in the other thread, please read it. thanks.
Nevermind...thank you RichRocket for proving I'm a better person than you. I hope you find liberalism before you die.
WARNING: Relevance and contraversy ahead. Parental Discretion is Advised. This may sound whacked out, but I can assure you it is the truth. I studied Modern MidEast History in school, and while Israel was my focus, the Taleban was making it's big run my last year of school, and it took first place in the "I can believe the are saying this **** dept." The frightening irony is, Falwell's speech is alarmingly much like the announcement of the jihad by the founder of the Taleban's when they formed in the mid-90's to overthrow the post-Soviet Masood government in Afghanistan. What was straw that broke the camel's back? Well...after the war with the USSR the country relied on toll roads for revenue (even for foot traffic) and soldiers to patrol them. The problem is these soldier answered to their immediate commanders who amounted to petty warlords who were only loyal to themselves, and the soldiers did pretty much as they pleased. In Kabul, the guys working the tollbooths, were religious students (who else could be better trusted?). One night a drunken patrol thought it would be real funny to beat the kids up and sodomize them (go figure). The terrified kids went to their clerics, who were horrified and decided to institute the harshest religious law seen since the middle ages and poof...the Taleban were born, bringing the poor Afghanis yet another couple thousand years backwards and chasing out the few educated people the remained. The address to the nation was one touching on the same theme: paganism, homosexuality, you deserve your misery, unify and purify you infidels so you don't go to hell, blah, blah, blah. I've since followed the stories of their destruction of the "satanic" Russian-built hospitals and roads and schools, of banning televisons, most sporting events, and pretty much anything other than group prayer. So for those of you equating Falwall with the Taleban, I am of the opinion that you're more correct than you may think. I got it off www.taleban.com (their official site) a few years back (it's dead now). How a regime that outlaws televisions and computers can have a website I could never understand. Maybe that's why it isn't there anymore. It was always a fun read. But my favorite Taleban moment was when Iranian government was trying to locate missing dignitaries last seen "near" the border (spying?) the Taleban statement was something like, and I paraphrase, "We know nothing of your politicians, but we are certain they are dead." Did I just agree with ZRB and Rocketman95? -Deji
RM95: you are cursing and blaspheming a godly man with whom you have a disagreement. In case you don't understand it, sentencing him to Hell is quite a strong action. He never has nor would hurt anyone. His opinion provides food for thought. I dare say you have no respect for anybody with whom you do not agree. That does not make America great. Your sentence proclaimed on him was ridiculous in extreme. How does your mind work? I'm glad to know that you think you are a better person than I. I actually feel comforted by that. ZRB: don't overstate Falwell's position. He clearly is associating what he sees as our nation's sinfulness with a loss of Godly protection, but that is a ways away from "blaming." Deji: C'mon! Falwell has an opinion and no power. The Taleban has the absolute power of pronouncement and judgement. Do you see a difference?!!
p 39A, today's chronicle has a headline: "Local Pastor Blames terrorism of Faithlessness" and refers to the Falwell craziness. Local icon Rev. Ed Young is the "local pastor" in the headline. It confirms the Falwell and Pat Robertson statements. A brief search of the houstonchronicle.com did not find the article. According to the Chronicle 2300 Houstonians attended and and "The prayer assembly at Second Baptist Church--a cross section of retirees, yooung parents and west Houston office workers on their noon lunch breaks--endorsed Young's reading of current events.".
Ottoman - The original tests that were done that proclaied homosexuality to be an inherited trait have never been duplicated since. They can't make it work, despite trying desperately to prove this. I didn't read that on Newsmax or any other conservative rag -- that was an AP story on the front page of the Chronicle about a year ago. The scientists said that the inability to have the tests repeat indicated that the chances that they could be replicated were slim to none. Conclusion: the jury is still out!! I love how people just declare victory on a factual issue when there is no conclusion. I can only speak from personal experience. I have more than a few friends who are gay....some say they were born that way...some say they choose or that sociology comes into play. All came from broken homes and/or abusive homes. I realize that's an extremely small sample size....that's just my experience. We all tend to generalize from our experience, no doubt. Having said that, I don't believe physical attraction or desires for sexual pleasure have anything to do with genetics. I believe they are two separate issues entirely. Yes, God gave me some heightened sensitivity down there!!! But I don't believe I was born with "turn ons!!" Those were formed by sociology. Had I been born in another country and raised with different images of females, certain things might excite or repulse me differently than they do here. Growing up in suburban America I find myself attracted primarily to white women. Had I grown up in Africa as a black man, do you honestly think that would be the goal of my sexual conquest?? Come on!!! I can't for the life of me begin to understand that what and who I'm attracted to sexually came from my genetic code. Again...let me state...I'm very disappointed with Falwell making these statements to a media. I'm not as concerned with Ed Young making these statements to people in his church. I'm not sure why I'm drawing that distinction just now....I'll think about it some more.
<b>He never has nor would hurt anyone. </B> You don't think telling homosexuals that they are partially responsible for this act is hurtful? You don't think his statements will cause other hateful people to engage in acts of violence?
