Wow, I couldn't have said it better. There shouldn't be so many excuses for somebody that is suppose to be NBA ready. If he really was that much ready for the NBA, he would have came in and produced with the minutes he got. And I don't want to hear people say "Oh, he was at the 2, playing out of position", it's just more excuses. If he really was NBA ready, it shouldn't matter if he plays out of position. NBA ready players are suppose to go out there when their coaches want them and produce what they can. More excuses? At this rate, you'll have more VSPAN excuses than the total of shots missed by Rafer Alston. What makes you think V-Span's shot will get better than Rafers? Because currently, V-Span makes Rafer's shot look like Reggie Miller and Chris Mullin combined. Hate on Rafer all you want, but at least he doesn't air ball every 3 pointer he takes like V-Span. For all we know, his shot could never improve. Honestly, I don't think it will get that much better. He will be a career high 30% to low 40% shooter. But that isn't a big deal because his game is being a playmaker so he can get away with bad shooting.
If you look at VSpan's performance on the WC games, his shooting is not that much different from Rafer -- like a switch, if at "on" position, he is deadly, or it can be at the "off" position, and his shooting sucks. Instead, one thing he does well EVERY GAME is his defensive. Which is a huge upgrade over Rafer. But I think you hit the point at the end -- right now he just does not understand JVG's play book (or NBA play style) welll enough to earn the trust from the coaching staff...
I said Rafer can't shoot because he is already not doing anything else. He is not distributing, he can't defend, he can't board, he can't steal the ball, he can't take a charge. The only thing Rafer is giving us is taking up 20% of the floor and protecting the basketball with it. Actually he's taking away 20% of the floor. You can get so tunnel visioned by just looking at one aspect of the game and focusing so much on one stupid statistic when basketball is such a multi-faceted game. I have never said nor have I thought that VSpan was a shooter. But he is a distributor who can score and score at a very efficient rate because of the fouls that he draws. His shooting percentages have never been the thing even though when you take out his 3 point shooting in Greece, he shoots a very decent clip of 45-50%. Look at his points per shot and realize that he gets into the paint and finishes and dishes and draws fouls. And those foul shots he hits at a crazy rate. Not only that, but you know enough about bball to understand that when a team is in foul trouble and they are playing an opponent who shoots free throws well and has a couple offensive dynamos on it, that that team is in trouble when they get into the bonus. That's where you have to understand the value of VSpan and what he brings to the table. He helps get the opponent in foul trouble and that in turns creates many opportunities for himself and for his teammates. That is what he did in Europe. You can't bring him over and play him at the 2 guard and all of a sudden expect him to be a spot up shooter. It's totally ridiculous. And you know enough about bball to recognize that he has not been given a shot at point guard this year to play in a meaningful game meaningful minutes from the point position Sam. Come on be real. Rafer is the worst starting PG in the NBA and one of the worst PGs overall right now and he's playing 36 mpg. And VSpan has not had a shot to play point yet. All he's gotten is scrap scrub minutes at the 2 guard spot. Wonder what Rafer's numbers would look like if he was playing in the backcourt as the 2 guard spotting up at the 3 point line while JLIII dribbled around and took a shot while Padgett, Novak, and Deke are standing around? The arguments against VSpan are just as ridiculous as the arguements for Rafer. VSpan should at the very least be given an opportunity to prove that he is as bad or worse than Rafer.
you have to understand, and I won't repeat myself every few posts Europe's three point line ain't the same...does he have a good shot? maybe he lacks a three point shot, but his mid ranger jumper is on point! he has to go thru so many adjustments... let's just say, Rafer, he has been playing the PG position for 7-8 years, so now you just decide to put him in the corner to play a forward (2) position and expect him to shoot threes, thats insane! but thats exactly what JVG was trying to do with Span......I said it million times, Span is a pure PG, nothing else, he is not a 3 point shooter! he has to have his freedom of playing 20-30 minutes at least 5-10 games to get a feeling of how the NBA is...you can't be serious and expect him to play right away like he did in greece.... dude, why don't you move to europe and try to adjust to the european live, its crazy different! you have to give Span a chance to prove himself, and playing him for 5-10 minutes and expecting him to do someting he never did, is just insane
Rafer sucks, like I said - I AGREE. And Spanoulis has proven to be mediocre in almost every single facet thus far, hence his mediocre statistics across the board and his generally lackluster performance. Then why are you b****ing about Rafer's shooting as the primary reason to swap Spanoulis in? His hideoulsy bad efficiency numbers indicate otherwise. Anyway - prove to me that "he is a distributor". THe guy never put up substantial numbers of assists and was alwaysreportedly more of a scorer. You're projecting what you want him to be - and subbing it for what it is. 45-50% from two point land (while much better than hideous rafer) is profoundly average - anyway he wasn't doing that here which is understandable given the much higher level of competition. He's averaging 1.0 something PPS. In the preseason he averaged 1.1 PPS. John Lucas III is currently around 1.1, Even Rafer the Mad Shot Taker is at around 1.0 something virtually identical to Spanoulis Congrats, he's an 82 % free throw shooter. I don't see how that fits him as an NBA point guard , because he's awful at all other aspects of the game, most critically ball security. (and don't tell me he's great at defense). Yeah he'll go for a few steals but he also looks lost and gets blown by a lot too. But anyway, as has been discussed a lot - the categories to be a PG on this Rockets team are most critically outside shooting and defense, not hte ability to drive the lane and jack up a shot. Second, you talk as if you've scouted him heavily in Europe and know all about his game. Did you? Or did you just read the scouting reports taht we all read and watch a few highlights? If you did you'd note that, while a flashy passer (and I agree, hsi passes are flashy - when they don't end up in the front row) that many of the knocks on him (can't shoot, plays out of control, not a playmaker) (availabel here though I generally hate NBAdraft.net profies) are the same ones taht make him a lousy fit on this team (and this league, to tell you the truth) ...a position to which he is more suited, and to which he responded by playing like sh-t. Shockingly, had you watched the Rockets - that's essentially what Rafer does in the starting line up. Stand around while Yao, et al go to work. I bet however if the was in the scenario you described his numbers would be similar - but with a lot fewer shots because he would have fewer open looks. Of course I don't know if he'd be Spanoulis bad- for whom getting out of the 20's is a hot streak. He has proven that he's worse. What's worse than Rafer shooting a lousy percentage? Answer. Rafer shooting a lousy % and turning the ball over more. All this wishful thinking about Spanoulis as the next Ginobli or Tony Parker is great - but thus far I have seen NOTHING from him to indicate this. NOTHING. And he has had his chances.
Rafer may not be shooting a great percentage but he has 1 thing that V-Span doesn't have. He can dribble the ball and set up the offense. Even if he isn't distributing the ball that well, he holds on to the ball and can start the offense up and get to where he's gotta get to start a play. I think he's a pretty good distributor, but the reason his assists numbers are low is because TMac's the main distributor and the Rockets run a slowed down offense where he can't really distribute affectively. He's not the best pg in the world, but V-Span looks horrendous whenever he gets in.
and you back up all that with the limited minutes he played? with all the adjustments coming at him? seriously, Clutch check these guys IP's, SamFisher, Prosun and Caboose are the same people, stubborn as JVG, they just don't get it, trying to prove something that noone can prove for right now...
I was talking more about his shot in general, not just his 3pt shots. I only brought up his shot because people always want to use Rafer's shot as a reason to why V-Span should play but V-Span shoots just as bad, if not worst. Mid-game range is on point? I don't know about that, all I've sene V-Span do is shoot 3s and drive. What the hell are you talking about? Are you saying that VSPAN has never ever in his career, played off the ball, moved over to the two guard, or banked in 3s against the US? It's not like JVG is asking him to be the main offensive force and shoot every shot he gets. It's not rocket science or anything, playing the 2-guard is actually easier than running the point. Even in Europe, because of the teams offense, VSPAN played a lot off the ball. He was a force because he kept moving which made it hard on the defense. So please, don't try to make up for his lack of production by saying JVG is making him do something hes NEVER done before because that is complete bull. That might be the worst VSPAN excuse I have heard yet. "Making him do something he's never done" is basically saying he's being forced to play basketball and he's never played. Because at the end of the day, that is all it is, a game of basketball.
Sam Fisher doesn't know a thng about basketball beyond statistics. All anyone is saying is give V-Span a chance at his natural position, and then see what he is capable of... With the limited time he had...there was some good and some bad....let's see if he can sustain the good and eliminate the bad, because we darned sure know for now that with Rafer it is a little good and mostly bad. DD
LOL, so when stats and reality go agaisnt you you just say they don't matter. Maybe you could work for the Bush administration on the Iraq war. You've never really seen him play PG so you don't know sh-t about his natural position. But anyway if he is such an awesome PG why did he rank 102nd in assists/game (1.3) in the FIBA world championships - his crowning achievement that you cite repeatedly? Once again, that is less than his 2.0 turnovers/game number. Don't give me that bullsh-t about how FIBA assists are harder - they're hard for everybody; so why is this natural PG not even in the top 100? The guy averaged fewer assists than Carmelo freaking Anthony, for god's sake. Explain, DaDakota, come on. Tell us why this prediction is not a worthless pile of breathless panting, with the cumulative value of a pile of sheep dung, like pretty much all your other ones turn out to be. Make us believe!
Rafer can't run to the basket without bricking a damn layup! we are not just talking about his shot, his layups are even worst! something that VSpan can do eyes closed he might have shot a basket from the right or left, but I seriously doubt that he ever played a 2...personally I would never use him as a 2, and if he ever played at the 2, he probably had the ball in his hands and could do whatever he wants....JVG only expects his 2 and 3 to wait for the ball, pass it a bit around and then shoot! thats something he does not do...
According to greek media rumours exist according to which a) Panathinaikos' owner president to bring him back to Athens and b) the LA Clippers are interested in trading Corey Maggette for Spanoulis.
Yawn !!!!!!!!! You know as well as I do that Fiba does not award assists as easily as the NBA. You can say what you want about it, but the fact remains that it is true. Greece plays a team oriented game, lots of cuts, pick -n-rolls etc....V-Span was a scoring PG on that team, he set the table, and he took a lot of food for himself. As for his PG abilities, did you watch him when he was playing PG before the season started? Did you see him making outstanding passes, setting his teamates up, having Yao Ming compare him to Nash? Did ya...did ya? Did ya see his 10 assist game, in the preseason....did ya...did ya? And again...we are talking about potential here, nothing else, no one is saying start V-span.... We are saying give him a chance....and if he sucks, he sucks, I will admit it. But he won't, and I would be willing to bet on it, if we knew he was going to get some PT. DD
Exactly.....instead of playing to a players strengths, he tries to shoe horn him into a system. It is a good thing we will get a new system next year. DD
Read the post, stupid. EVERYBODY in the tournament played under their scoring rules. He ranked 102nd in assists - as a starting PG. Tell me why this makes you think he's a great distributor. And it's not because he was busy scoring like Micheal Jordan unless you consider 11.7 ppg to be a huge scoring load - which he did on Raferesque 35.7% shooting. That's Oscar Torres territory (though Torres got more assists, lol.) I also saw him toss 29 turnovers on 24 assists. For every outstanding pass, there was one or more that landed in the front row. As for Yao comparing him to Nash - that's quite literally stupid. Nash's game is totally different and is predicated, inter alia, on his superior outside shooting, something that I have said many times but you are unable to grasp. No, and neither did you, because he didn't have one. Pwned again. Give up.
Pure Sam Fisher, just the first 2 letters short of class. Stay Classy Sammy ! No one is comparing his shooting to Nash's, just his passing ability and court vision. So now you are calling Yao Ming stupid...well done..... DD
You're right. We've never got to see him play PG over here, just in Greece and the Nationals, where he played point quite effectively. The more you post, the more I am convinced that he should be starting and if we don't give him a chance, some other team is going to and we are going to regret it. You are using miniscule statistical to try to prove your points and it is just not substantiative.
You can always tell when DaDakota is flustered because he brings up Bostjan Nachbar D) and starts talking about class - all the while ranting about how people are his b****. And over there, against largely inferior competition, the numbers tell pretty much the same story as far as I can tell. Bad shooting, not many assists, and a fair amount of turnvoers.
