Please notice that Boki scored 5 more PPG the year he got traded Is he a great player, no, but he is an ok player and someone worthy of potentially your top 9.......and certainly better than Ryan Bowen who got PLENTY of playing time. DD
Nike, I am pretty close to agreement with you I think. I understand that he is signed for 3 more years and we will have ample opportunity to see him play. I just think that once he starts playing it will take him some time to develop, and I would like to get that out of the way...THIS year rather than next. As I don't think the Rockets are going to win it all this year.....I hope so, but I think they are really focusing on 2 or 3 years down the road. DD
I don't want this post lost as the last one on the last page....as it is primarily what I am talking about. DD
Ha ha. THis is the same dadakota who was once pitching Suck-bar as a second option who has now downgraded to him as "worthy of potentially your top 9"...in other words - he MIGHt be able to maintain his place on an NBA roster next year...after FIVE years of being in the league. Don't aim too high. You might put your eye out. And yeah, he scored more points when he was traded - at a crappy percentage, which he is more than able to get by with on a bad team. That's what bad fringe roster players do. And yes, you're right, he was able to make it as a bad fringe roster player, which is more than I thought he would be so you won your bet, so I guess you got that going for you.
Oberto played 492 minutes last season, 8 minutes a game in only 59 out of 82 games, Spanoulis is on pace to get about the same-- we'll see if injuries/performance dictates more or less as the season goes on. If you want to compare guys from the Spurs, what about the talented young Jackie Butler and Beno Udrih not getting regular minutes? As for "developing young guys," guess where Spanoulis ranks in terms of youth on the team? Novak is the youngest, and Hayes, Snyder, Head, and Lucas (in that order) are each younger than Spanoulis. Hayes, Snyder, Head, and Lucas either have played regular minutes when healthy or are now playing regular minutes over Spanoulis. 4 out of the 6 youngest guys either have gotten regular minutes or are now getting regular minutes. It's not youth, but performance that dictates who plays and who sits.
This is where you are wrong. The Rockets are focused on winning now, which is one reason we traded for Shane. I also doubt we win the championship this year, but the idea is to make an all-out run for the title. We don't have the luxury of waiting because we don't know how long Yao and Tracy are going to last. Blaming it on JVG's contract situation is silly, but if that's how you feel, so be it. Before the season is over, V-Span will again get his 10-15 mins/game and hopefully he doesn't fall off a cliff like last time.
None of those guys are coming from a different culture and professional league. As for your performance bit, how can you perform if you aren't getting any time to play on the court? V-Span has proven himself in international competition, and just needs time to do the same in the NBA. And, your point about Hayes, Head, and Synder actually proves my point....they got the chance to play, and made the most of it....V-span should get the same courtesy. Do you think JVG would be playing Head so much if he was not forced to play him last year due to injuries? I honestly wish V-Span was here LAST year as he would probably be the starting PG on the team right now because of all the learning he would have done with the injuries last year. DD
Fair enough you and I are not going to agree. I just think that V-Span could be learning on the fly and it would not be costing the team any games, but rather would be developing a deeper bench. DD PS. I really appreciate the honest discourse without name calling. It makes the GARM a much better place to discuss our passions.
Here's how RudyT treated another rookie - a top 15 draft pick, no less! Under RudyT: 14 games, 77 minutes. On a 43 win team. Conveniently enough, Van Gundy came in the next year to save the day for this sadly under utilized rookie, and said rookie then played 45 games, 516 minutes. A three-fold increase in games played, and a nearly 7 fold increase in game minutes, on a team that was winning at a similar rate (actually, 2 more wins). Meanwhile, Spanoulis has played 17 games, and 178 minutes, and is on pace for ~46 games and 487 minutes...similar numbers to what a former top 15 pick got in his 2nd year, but on a team that's even better (pace for 49 wins). It should be noted that the rookie that RudyT refused to play showed no appreciable increase in production under Van Gundy. And I think you know that rookie was Bostjan Nachbar. The idea that RudyT (or another coach) would be playing Spanoulis significant minutes is simply unfounded. Your example of Rudy playing Cassell is easily countered by Rudy's use of Nachbar, who was drafted in the first half of the first round. One last thing on Boki...he's playing under 15 minutes a game for a very thin NJ Nets team. Players in his role are a dime a dozen. Put it this way - where would he rank on your Rockets bench this season? I would put him behind Head, Wells, Howard, Mutombo, and Snyder. Manu and Parker got minutes early because they could play. Cassell got sporadic minutes early because he could play. Good idea. Oberto played 490 minutes last year. We established already that VSpan is on pace to play 487 minutes this year. Not much of a difference there...especially considering Oberto came into the league as a 30 year old.
I concede that Rudy might have been doing the same as JVG, but I believe that Rudy would have been playing V-Span at his natural position...which is PG. I do think that Popovich would be playing him though...at least I THINK he would be..... Boki was very young and raw....V-Span is not young and is a much more accomplished player coming into the league than Nachbar. So it is not an apples to apples comparison. V-Span is ready, he just needs time to prove it, again...IMHO. DD
As requested previously, since you know more than most/all NBA coaches, please drop the "H" from "IMHO". Not necessary.
Hey Sammy.....wow, what a great post......you come in and offer so much to this discussion we are having...... And...the "H" is necessary, as if you read all of my posts in this thread, you would see we are discussing things which are opinions only..... But, thanks again for dropping by and adding so much to this thread.....man, what a star. I may not know more than NBA coaches, but.... I have more basketball knowledge in my bell end than you have in your entire family tree. Thanks so much for dropping by..... DD
I think you might be getting a little caught up in the PG "name". When TMac is in these days, he's really been the point guard, whether Alston likes it or not (which is why I'd prefer more Head as a pseudo-PG who can actually shoot, but let's not digress...). Maybe in this, we've discovered why JVG is playing Spanoulis as the 2 guard - when he eventually/hopefully does play with the first unit, the ball is going to be dominated by TMac and Yao for hopefully the next 3 years at least. VSpan is going to have to learn to be effective off the ball to play with the first unit, no? Span has gotten his recent garbage minutes next to JL3. While we might call JL3 the point guard, he pretty much only looks for his shot. But still, Span has gotten his opportunities to be the creator, evidenced by the 2 PnRs with Chuckie, one resulting in a TO, one resulting in the nice assist of the and-1 layup. And again, I think you're overstating VSpan's accolades, and maybe not giving Nachbar enough credit out of Europe. Wasn't Nachbar the star of his team, and the reason a top 5 pick was coming off the bench? The funny thing is, I think we're probably in agreement on Alston and even Spanoulis' potential, just disagree on what it takes for him to reach it.
An interesting point about Tmac dominating the ball and actually being the PG...I agree with this and it is why I have been advocating starting Head over Alston as he is a much better shooter and offensive player. I just think that in order for the Rockets to reach their potential they will need more than one guy who can create on the floor at the same time. Right now it is Tmac only....and a 2nd penetrating player would add so much to the offense. I have been impressed as of late with Luther driving to the hole and dishing off as team's rotate to stop him, I think V-Span would do this even better. Yeah, I can see how JVG may be asking him to play the 2 guard to learn to play off the ball, but IMHO, I think V-Span should be on the ball. Nachbar was 19 years old, and V-Span is 25....so I think V-Span is the more accomplished player.....but again, we are not talking apples to apples in this comparison. Again, I don't think we are that far off in agreement, I just think the learning process would be accelerated with some minutes on the court with our better players...ala Manu Ginobli and Tony Parker. But, at the end of the day, we are just going to have to wait on JVG to play him......or not. DD
Yeah, but how many wins did the Hornets get for their use fo Boki? Boki really wasn't that efficient in getting his 8 ppg.. he only shot about 39% from the field. As for Ryan Bowen vs. Boki, Boki got 11 minutes a game in 03/04, his first under JVG, and then about 13 mpg the next season as a Rocket before getting traded. Bowen's MPG under Van Gundy were 9.2 and 9.6. So, if 9.2 and 9.6 minutes were "plenty", then certainly 11 and 13 would be more than "plenty." Bowen was no more than a situational player when Rockets were at full strength. He only averagaed as much as 9 mpg probably due to one type of injury or another to guys like Howard, McGrady, Swift, Yao, etc. I don't know if you can definitively say Bowen was preferred over Nachbar. Nachbar was the price of getting Wesley... I doubt the rebuilding Hornets would have wanted Ryan Bowen in that trade.
As I understand it they wanted Jim Jackson and Boki's contract was thrown in to make the salaries match. 9 minutes per game would be a start for V-Span.....right now he has 175 minutes over the 30 games the Rockets have played..... But when he does play he is averaging 10.3 minutes.....so I would love for him to get that every game...and when he does well, he plays longer, when he sucks..he sits..... DD
The Rockets need a balance of shooting, driving, defense, and passing at the PG position, not just one skill or another. Alston may not be outstanding in any of the aspects, but he's acceptable in all fronts and the team generally plays well with him in there-- better than when Head, Spanoulis, Lucas were in as the 1. That's why he plays. Remember when Battier shot 7 for 12 from the arc the other day? He was interviewed, and says he was open due to the opportunities created by three teammates: McGrady, Alston, and Wells. Alston does make a difference out there, even if bias prevents some of us from seeing that.
You do realize what a horrific team that was, don't you? The Hornets were an 18-64 team that year. Koudos to Boki for averaging 8.1 ppg on a horrific team when he couldn't on a 51-31 Houston Rockets team. Imagine that. The bigger question is, why Boki could only get 8.1 ppg on a team where the 2nd leading scorer was Lee "Freakin'" Nailon.
