Rimmy, I am saying that if V-Span was put on that team, he would probably be just as successful....because as a PG your stats and performance are directly a result of your teamates abilities to play. Tony Parker got to play at the age of 19 with championship caliber players, and because of that, he is now a stud....V-Span should be playing with Yao and Tmac...to take the pressure off as he learns... He is the future at PG for the Rockets....but the future gets farther out as JVG is too afraid to use him. DD
Wow, that is one hell of a statement. Just to be clear, though, are you saying that: a. VSpan would make the wide open jumpers, (open to contested) layups he is missing now, and not do the jump-in the-air-before-knowing-who-to-pass-to turnovers had he played for SA in 2001-2, b. VSpan has not gotten to play with Yao Ming, McGrady, and Battier?
From the beginning I got the feeling that JVG didn't want VSpan, and would get in his head if he came here. VSpan doesn't look happy at all. I think he has loads of potential, but it probably won't be realized here, at least as long as JVG is the coach. JVG tends to stereotype players, I don't think VSpan is his kind of player. No inside info, just an intuition. Too bad. Novak appears doomed as well.
No, I am saying that he would be learning the NBA game and be developing into a very productive player.... Tony Parker was the same when he came into the league, but when you get to play with better players, and your mistakes are not magnified because the rest of your team is so good, you gain confidence and your abilities go up. V-Span today is playing worse than he played in the World Championships, because his confidence is hurt, he is playing out of position, and he hasn't had an ample opportunity to learn on the run. And yes I think a 25 year old V-Span would be about the same as a 19 year old Tony Parker. Tony Parker and Manu both struggled their rookie years but Popovich had the sack to know that by playing them he would make his team MUCH better. JVG....well....he is bald. DD
DD, I think you and some others need to forget what happened in the Worlds. That USA team (and I use the term "team" lightly) was disjointed and out of whack much of the time. NBA defenses are much tougher to deal with. If this wasn't the case, V-Span's transition to the NBA wouldn't be that difficult. If it was as simple as your post, V-Span would already be a star in this league. But the fact is he can't shoot, fouls too much and has way too many TOs in the NBA. The Rockets season is about trying to win now, not developing V-Span. He is behind Rafer, Luther & now JL3 in the PG rotation for good reasons. Yes, he could get a few more minutes but definitely not 10 mins/game at this point. For people like you, there is hope that with 53 games remaining, a lot of things can change. The NBA can be physically and emotionally bruising to first year players and V-Span is no exception. If he is mentally tough enough, he will get his chance again and run with it. Prior to last night, his line for the last 5 games he had played (all consecutive): 68 mins, 11 points, 4-16 FG, 0-6 3 pointers, 11 assists, 7 TOs, 5 rebs, 5 PFs This is why he was benched. After these 5 consecutive games, it was time to make a change and give him time to regroup and start fresh. Whoa, just read your last couple of posts. Tony Parker isn't what he is today because Pop played him as a rookie. It's because TP works very hard and has improved every year. And for you to say V-Span would be just as good as TP under those same circumstances is a humongous reach. If V-Span improves each and every year for 5 seasons the same way TP has (which very few players do), great. But expecting a 24 year old V-Span to do what 19 year old TP did is unfair to V-Span. (If you didn't know, I'm a part-time Spurs fan and watching TP grow up has been fun). On Rafer, I pretty much agree with you.
OK, last thing because this is beyond pointless for both of us (and every poor soul who is reading). You do realize that EVERY single FIBA player plays worse (to some degree) in the NBA than they do in the Worlds, Olympics, league, etc., right? Is that because all of their NBA coaches are...uh...bald?
We don't know if VSpan is unhappy or not, and we don't know, if he's unhappy, whether he's unhappy because he thinks he's ready to play but doesn't or because he knows he's not ready to play and is frustrated that he isn't more ready. We also don't know if he wants to stay on the Rockets and work harder or get traded to another team where he thinks would afford him PT or get send back to Europe where he knows he's get more PT. JVG said in the preseason that Spanoulis isn't ready to play, JVG also said that Spanoulis has the right mental makeup to be a good player in the league. It would seem JVG means Spanoulis has the right mental makeup to power through the frustration and eventually become ready to play. We'll see if that assessment is right. The "JVG didn't want him so he's sabotaging him" line makes no sense. Maybe some of you are so petty as to sabotage a player you dislike in order to prove youself right. JVG has not shown that kind of pettiness in his career. He absolutely HATED the Macus Camby trade that cost him Charles Oakley. In fact, he got into a feud with his GM and ended up getting that guy fired. But he did not kill Camby's career in order to retailate. He helped develop Camby, giving Camby the minutes when playing Camby helped the team win. Camby started off as an underachieving non-rebounder who can jump in Toronto, got limited minutes at first in NY and gradually earned minutes under Van Gundy as he became a better player. Spanoulis hasn't played much at all, but that doesn't mean he won't get better and have a good career. In fact, guys like Eric Snow and Charlie Ward each played very few minutes as rookies and had very good long careers. Van Gundy favorite Charlie Ward, in particular played a grand total of 44 minutes in his rookie season.
LOL - Yes, I know there is an adjustment period....no doubt about it, I am saying that adjustment period is shorter when they actually get a chance to compete on the court. All that is happening right now if V-Span is sitting and not adjusting.....he would be better off in the NBDL right now, rather than sitting at the end of the Rockets bench. And, if JVG were doing what is best for the team and it's future, he would be playing him. But, JVG is worried about his contract and is not going to take that risk....I get that.....and I think that is a fatal flaw on JVG's part. You have to be able to live with a certain amount of risk to succeed...IMHO. I do believe that JVG is a good coach, but I don't think he is a great coach. DD
Of course it makes no sense to you. He is your boy and he can do no wrong. The the fact is JVG has continually showed pettiness in his career. He is petty it is his nature and it is what I dislike about him. All things being considered he is an above average coach with a very good defensive strategy. But it is his petty unfair treatment of players that makes me dislike him. Of course sometimes it is hard for Daddy to see the truth.
You do know that things don't happen over night? Just because Team A played their rookies and it worked doesn't mean it would work for everyone else. Not every player devlops the same. V-Span logged some good amount of minutes but didn't produce well enough to keep his rotation spot. And don't even use that "JVG doesn't play rookies or young guys" argument because it's not even valid because he even went deep into this PG rotation and pulled out Lucas for some valuable minutes. JVG is not dumb, if V-Span would help us win, he'd be playing. Also, how would you even know if not playing is hurting his confidence and game development? Unless you are a personal friend of VSpan, I doubt you know. Basketball players are professionals, they know how to handle sitting on the bench and waiting their turn. Only a weak minded individual would let lack of playing time hurt is game and confidence, and V-Span is not that player. Even overseas, VSpan was coming off the bench. It's not like he was over there logging heavy minutes his whole career in Greece. It's not exactly a bad thing to sit on a bench for a year while learning the game. And it definitely won't make him worst just because he isn't playing a lot in his rookie year.
Of course it is a matter of opinion, but why would you have a player who is one of the best PG's in Europe sit on the bench the whole year, or why would you put him in the rotation at a spot in which he is not going to succeed? V-Span is not a 2 guard...he is a PG. Look, I am saying that if it were me running the show, I would be playing V-Span as the first PG off the bench, and bringing him in about the 6 minute mark in the first quarter to relieve Rafer, and to allow him to play with better players. I would have him running the PnR with Yao or Hayes, because V-Span is a heck of a passer in that situation, and I would have him attacking the basket. Now, if he starts screwing up, I would yank him, but....I would put him back in later after explaining what he is doing wrong. If you believe that V-Span is the PG of the future, then you should be playing him NOW to get to that future soon, because IMHO, this team will go nowhere with Rafer Alston at the point. Rafer is at best a backup PG.....and right now he is a starter by proxy.....I would be playing V-Span to find out if he is going to be a piece to the championship puzzle, because to me, clearly Rafer isn't. This year should be about chemistry, and finding out who you have as keepers to eventually make that championship run, in a year or two. It is highly unlikely that this year the Rockets will win it all, so I would want to find out whom is going to be part of the equation, and whom isn't. But, I contend that since JVG has no contract beyond this year, he is completely trying to win as many THIS year as possible, and damned the torpedoes and full speed ahead........I don't think JVG is thinking beyond this year. Whereas someone like Popovich who was stable in his position, could afford to take some risks and see if his rookies would perform. Rudy T did the same thing with Sam Cassell....he allowed him to adjust to the NBA by playing him...when he played well, he earned more minutes, when he stunk, he sat...BUT...he always got back in the game. JVG on the other hand is too restrictive, and if a player makes a mistake, no matter how minor, he will bench him and sometimes does not give that player a chance to redeem himself. Now, if it is a veteran player that stinks he will give him chance after chance even though said player may REALLY stink...ala Weatherspoon, or Rod Strickland, or Rick Brunson...etc..etc..etc..... JVG trusts has-beens more than potential can-be types of players, and IMHO, that is bad for the long run. DD
Actually, Dikembe Mutombo was playing very sporadic minutes and got benched right away for mistakes before Yao was out. One of these times that I recall is when Van Gundy angrily smashed the table when Deke and whoever missed blocking out on a free throw attempt and it ended up in a 3 pointer. Dikembe also got publicly and privately criticised for not blocking out in the game that ended up with the TMac concussion.
So, to whom was he giving "petty unfair treatment"? What petty unfair treatment would these be? Derek Anderson? Boki Nahbar? Examples please.
But because Deke was a veteran he got some chances to prove himself again and again. And, he is playing a lot because of injury, and playing well.....at least on defense. Do you think that JVG is making some decisions based upon his contract situation? I do, I think if he had more rope he would be more willing to develop some players, like V-Span, Novak, & Lucas. But, I think he wants to win and get a new contract, and the very fact that Les has not given him an extension proves that the Rockets brass don't like him all that much.....IMHO. DD
Actually Boki would be a good example, he argued with JVG and he was put into the deep freeze because of it. Boki is not a great player by any stretch, but he could be a decent role player, and was certainly better than Ryan Bowen. DD
I don't notice that JVG had more of a dislike for youngsters a couple years ago when he had 3 more guaranteed years left on the contract. That should answer your suspicion about his contract situation leading to decisions. Do you notice any change in playing time for young guys as his contract runs out either now or in NY? If you do, please elaborate. As for Dikembe getting chance. He's not getting any more chances than, say, Luther Head, Chuck Hayes, or Kirk Snyder after their mitakes. Hell, even Stromile Swift continued to get some minutes toward the end of last season. He plays guys who he thinks will help the team win in the given situation, and that's true every year.
First off, I agree with you that VSpan is being used oddly as a 2 guard. The only logical explanation I can think of is JVG is attempting to add some wrinkles to his game, but even that doesn't mean a whole lot. But, I think this idea that he was one of the best PG's in Europe is a little bit misguided. Didn't our Greek friends say he was really about the 3rd best guard on the Greek team? Further, a guy like Jasikevicius dominated across the pond, and has been a fringe rotation player. Carlos Arroyo looks unstoppable in international play, but can best be described as inconsistent in the NBA. How good was Arvydas Macijauskas in the NBA? Spanoulis can play ball, and we have him signed to a 3 year contract. Likewise with Novak. It took Nash 4 years before he started really putting up numbers (10+ pts, 6+ assists). That's why I think the Rockets don't have to really see these guys in game minutes a lot - we don't have to make a decision on their roster status for the future.
Well, if Boki was actually consistently useful, he would have gotten time, argument or not. Steve Francis had his disagreements with JVG, he still played-- and he only got traded because a better player was available. Bonzi Wells got his disagreement with JVG, and he ended up playing when he got in (relatively good) shape and show willingness to conform. On the other hand, Jim Jackson was nicknamed "the coach's pet" by other players (I think Cat and Stevie were likely the culprit), but he got shipped for Wesley because Wesley could help the team more. Wesley was not brought back despite his "good attitude" and getting praised for playing through a cracked rib because he couldn't help the team anymore. It's really all about winning the games. It took Boki a couple more years after being shipped to even become an acceptably mediocre bench player. His lack of PT really had more to do with him sucking.
Ok, but my point is that he is not thinking about the FUTURE of the team. By letting some players get a chance to prove on the fly. Ala Popovich with all his rookies.....look at the starting center for the Spurs now....Oberto see how Popovich used him last year? He developed and now he is a complimentary piece. Look at Manu Ginobli who was the same type of player and age as V-Span when he entered the league...he learned on the fly, and again is a good player now. or what about Tony Parker his rookie year? The point is that all of them got a chance to learn ON THE COURT..because Popovich could see that it would make his team stronger in the long run. Seemingly JVG would rather exhaust his starters than develop young talent. DD
