How much did race/culture play into the NY/DEN suspension?

There were blacks in the other fights, too. Unless Rasheed, Bonzi, Shaq, Barkley, Julius Erving, Stackhouse, and Kirk Snyder don't count as black.

Ok, they are yellowbone and light skinned, David Stern thought they were white european players and that's only reason they didn't get suspended for 15-25 games. Everybody knows if they were darkskinned or blacker, they would have gotten 15 game suspensions.


Question: How long was Stackhouse and Kirk Snyder suspended anyway?

 

I actually voted that it was a reverse influence. Not exactly though...hear me out.

Imagine a non-black guy were the main cause of the brawl. Let's say Peja (as if he would ever fight lol) for instance. I think Stern would see that as an opportunity to lay down a heavy suspension (heavier than the one on these guys) to show that there's no bias and that nobody gets off easy just because they are _______ or ________. So in a round about way, I think they got less than a non-black guy would have gotten. However, the motivation would be to prove a point, not necessarily to punish someone for being a particular ethnicity. I hope that made some sense.

Lastly, I feel that the suspensions are just about right as they are.

 

there are a lot of white people who would label laimbeer strictly a thug. further there are a lot of white people who would label robinson hard nosed and tough for standing in there and fighting being as small as he is.

the only player being universally blasted is melo for being a punk.

 

But it doesn't have the same connotation, does it?

 

Is Karla Malone considered thug or just a hardworker? He injured a couple of players, but he loves Monster Truck rallies, wrestling, and hunting.

 

Steve Francis said he believes this stipulation to be true. Steve is a honest guy. Billy Hunter backed him up, too. If he says it, who am I to say that these punishments are not severe?

 

I don't know. Laimbeer was always regarded as thuggish, or at least dirty. In fact, the entire original Bad Boys team, except maybe Dumars, were considered thuggish. These players would have been "cleaned up" had they played in today's NBA. I think some time a few years ago Stern suddenly realized that the "street" (not black or white) image of the NBA players were hurting business.

 

I don't know if this point has been posted or not (if it has please disregard). I do not have time to read 3 pages before I leave work today.

The NBA punishments are bigger than most sports for this type thing because the fans are sitting right there on the court. It's not like hockey where there is plexi-glass (they have gone through that though), or baseball where the players have a wall and big area to fight and not go into the crowd, and football where they would have to go through a team/reporters/security/cheerleaders before they get to the fans.

It is the risk of the fights spilling out into the crowd and the crowd becoming involved like soccer brawls. Stern wants it to stop, so he wants to make examples. Grown men fighting in a sport they should be isn't good for the sport. But Stern might not realize that many of the players are not grown men. They are barely in their 20s and they do not have the self control or the intelligence of what those types of actions will really cost them (Melo).

 

because the length of suspensions is not dictated by 1 event, but by who constitutes the organization (nba). because the nba is comprised of mostly black men, the penalties are more harsh across the board.

in hockey, fighting is still fighting but because it's a sport dominated by white people, it's ok if they fight. but not those big scary black men.

 

For baseball, it doesn't need an image. It is America's past time. Besides, how many times has baseball violence produced serious injuries? Baseball players are pillsbury doughboy compared to players in hockey, football, and basketball.

For hockey, fighting has always been a part of the game. In fact, it is one of the attractions of the sport, sort of like pro wrestling.

For football, well, football actually has tightened up on unnecessary violence in recent years. And football is the most violent among all these sports.

Cleaning up fighting in the NBA has very little to do with race. It does have a lot to do with image. It is a bottom line thing. Some of you people give too much credit to Stern's social conscience. He is a business man. If he were selling hip-hop music, I can bet you he would have used all the hip-hop image NBA players can muster to sell his products.

 

Sport, race, culture! The oddman out here is Sport!
Sport is supposed to be an activity that can overcome any culture, race or religion.
It is an activity performed by athletes for their enjoyment and fulfillment of their God Given attributes and for the enjoyment of others[fans]

So we as fans look to Sports to be a pure activity that we can enjoy or partake in. Personal Cultures of individual participants should be left outside of the game for the games sake, also the participants are bound by the rules of their sport and these rules leave no way for consideration of personal or racial cultures. Each and every participant who plays without observing these rules will be taken to task by the governing body of their sport.
Repeated offences done withouty regards or respect to previous efforts to curb an infrtingement, should expect and accept harsher enforcement of the rules and justly so, if this be the only way of acheiving purity.
Calling the Race or Culture card is now a well washed excuse, which will mean less and less as time goes on and as we all learn to live as human beings, brothers and sisters.

 

Mmh, are you sure?

I wasn't even thinking of someone considering race as a factor, then you started this thread and Francis went public in the NY post with the same theory .

francis 4 prez = Francis?

http://www.nypost.com/seven/1219200..._factor_knicks_dan_martin_and_marc_berman.htm

 

That's the Olympic ideal but even in the Olympics you can't divorce sports from culture. The type of games played, who plays them and what the rules are are intrinsic to the sport. Brazillian Jujitsu and Olympic style Judo both trace their origin to the Judo founded by Dr. Kano but the rules are different and the type of people who do them are different. That has to do with culture.

 

I won't say race/culture doesn't play any part, but it does play a small one. This, in my opinion, was obvious because of the precedent set by the IND/DET brawl.

It wasn't as bad but it still put fans at risk, and once you put fans at risk you cross a big line. I'm sure David Stern and Rod Thorn received some calls from league attorney's reminding them of the potential for lawsuits, etc. if a innocent bystander is physically hurt when players decide to turn the court into a WWE ring.

Look back at sports altercations involving fans directly/indirectly and you'll see that no matter what sport the players involved received more than a slap on the wrist.

 

I understand this point, it's valid. But the league, and society as a whole, has progressed and as such rules and laws change. I don't think there's anything wrong w/ that. We aren't using the same laws that were used when the Constitution was written, otherwise slavery would still be around. I think if the league is more violent, it should goverened as such. But your point that the rules were initiated becaue of a racial influence is something I can see. The question is, is David Stern more strict because he wants the NBA to be squeaky clean, the NBA has more violent scenarios, or he has a subconcious racial bias that leads him to believe the league is more 'thuggish'. I think it's all of the above.

Not directed to you francis, but others have compared this to hockey. I don't see it. It's two completely different organizations. For example, baseball, football, basketball, and hockey all have different rules on drug use and testing. In a more extreme (and poor analogy) example, the crowd only cheers between points in tennis. Should we expect the same of all sports now? In hockey, they have players on their team basically just to be an enforcer. That level of physical contact is part of the sport. You're SUPPOSED to knock the crap out of a receiver in football even if it's a fingertip touch and he really has no chance at catching the ball. Whether NASCAR wants to allow their guys to duke it out after a race has no relation to what Stern wants.

I don't think race was an issue in this singular event. In fact, I think everyone saw it coming. We all know how strict the NBA is now, there's been precedent, and this is in line w/ the past. I think the only argument on racial influences is on whether the precedent was initiated based on racial sterotypes as I stated above. The worst offense you can do in a game is throwing a punch (or Hulk Hogan leg drop, etc), so I don't have a problem w/ Carmelo's penalty. No matter who initiated anything, throwing a punch is still viewed as the last line to cross. I think he should get 10 games minimum, and as I said, I don't have a problem w/ 15 if Stern feels that people still don't take it seriously. I bet many will think '15 games' the next time they have the urge.

The last discussion seems to revolve around whether race plays into the image of the NBA by the media and public. I imagine it probably does. Despite the fact that it's a pretty diverse league now, the predominant image is still of a mostly black league. I think this is because of two things: most superstars w/ commericals are black, and the players are the most visible (faces aren't covered by a helmet for example). I wouldn't know what a pro bowl center looks like, I'm probably more likely to pick out the 12th man on several teams in basketball. And the truth is bad events will always get the spotlight. I also think Stern's strict policies actually feed into the image. Call it the chicken and the egg. The media might view the NBA as a thug league which Stern might respond to. But Stern's strict rules may also play into the thought 'oh he's so strict, there must a problem, it's getting out of control'.

Despite the few bad apples, overall I think the NBA still has the cleanest league. The Cincinnati Bengals probably have more arrests than all NBA players combined this year. Baseball has a serious doping problem. And I would say the NBA has the most international influence of all major sports organizations. Just like the Yao situation, I think some people aren't aware that they may subconciously let public perception of races play into their opinions.