Could you please explain why this revelation you had in any way led you to beleive in Christ/salvation/etc.? And if I never experience a similar miracle, am I automatically doomed to hell? It would be strange for an all-loving God to exclude his children from heaven, no?
You are not excluded, you are invited to this reconciliation with your Father. He has been seeking you since you were born, before you were born. As a Jew by ethnic hertiage, your entire cultural heritage prepares you for this miracle. Jesus was a Jew, His disciples were Jews, most of the early converts were Jews. Essentially Jesus was a Rabbi, but much more. He claimed to be the Jewish Messiah, the Son of God, The Promised One. He proved who He was with great miracles, unparalleled revelations of Truth, and, above all, His Death, Burial, and Ressurection. For you to accept the Messiah is not a repudiation of your heritage, but a fulfillment of it. One example, and, unfortunately, I have to return to work. Surely you are familier with the Passover celebration. It commemerates the deliverance of the Hebrew people from the bondage of Egypt. The plagues all represented the gods of Egypt. It is as if Yahweh said, "you want to worship the Nile, then I will make it live, I will turn it to blood...you want to worship frogs, then I will give you frogs, everywhere." A bit comical. But the last plague was anything but comical, the death of the first born. To protect the Hebrews from this event, Moses was instructed to tell each family to take in a lamb without spot or blemish and at the appointed time they were to sacrifice the lamb, take its' blood, and put it on their doorposts. When the death angel came he would "pass over" the homes with the blood of the lamb on their doorposts. For you, that lamb was a symbol of Christ. Truly, it was the Blood of the Lamb that paid the price for your sins and mine. As a Jew, surely this will have special significance for you, and if you accept your Messiah, you will experience this miracle of which I speak.
Mad Max, I would love to discuss this with you. I am under some pressure to complete some assignments at this time. Please return here at some time in the future, and I will respond to your comments. It will take more time than I have right now. Thanks. I promise you, I will have some very interesting things to say.
The post immediately following yours is for you, I didn't click the right button. May God give you the answers you seek.
So you connect, using metaphor, the Jews' sacrifice of lambs in Egypt to Christ's "sacrifice" of himself and call it a revelation. It seems to me that you felt a need for some higher power/redemption in your life and your mind made some connection between something in your life and Christ. Besides, why should I beleive any of these stories anyways? Particularly, as a Jew, why should I beleive in any of the stories, written by men, in the so-called New Testament? I am not an observant Jew. I do not beleive that the Torah is the word of God. Still, my skepticism about my own religion doesn't come close to my skepticism about Christianity. Maybe it's bias. But I digress... The point is, God has never spoken to me. If he had, I'm sure I would have known or remembered it. Still, when searching through all my life experiences, nowhere is there a moment that can in the slightest bit be construed as God (or Christ for that matter) communicating with me. So I guess I don't buy that the Christian God as you describe it could possibly exist because it would be excluding me, a person who has never been contacted by God, from getting to heaven. Such a God is certainly not all-loving, hence the contradiction.
truly, it's not a big deal with me. i'm not a mega-church guy. i have no ties to rick warren. i just consider him and osteen to be preaching 2 very different messages.
i think osteen is an okay guy, too. i just don't subscribe to his brand of faith. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_gospel
Wow... I heard something about "prosperity" within this movement, but I always thought it was something abstract or was attached to some other meaning dealing with faith or kindness. I didnt know it actually meant being financially successful.
I think he is asking you to consider the metaphor with respect to Messiah and the prophets testimony that He should suffer. Since you used the word 'revelation' I think you should think of divine intervention. As a Christian I would not think for a moment that my 'Christian revelation' came about because of something I felt I needed or anything my mind could do on its own. Without direct intervention by God the spiritual experience Solid has described cannot happen. So if you choose to leave God out of it then you are describing an experience that is not going to result in someone becoming a Christian. We sometimes term it a "New Birth". Meaning it is a spiritual birth. We believe (and experience) it, not as a human experience- but as an experience of God's Spirit. We also call it "Born of the Spirit". You won't believe them without God's intervention. The answer to alot of your questions can be understood by the words of the Prophet Isaiah- 1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 8 By oppression [a] and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken. 9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes [c] his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. 11 After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life [d] and be satisfied [e] ; by his knowledge [f] my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, [g] and he will divide the spoils with the strong, [h] because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. The question often asked is 'who is he speaking of?' The prophets all agree God reveals himself to the lowly, the broken and contrite of heart, those who tremble at His words. I think God has a purpose in your searching and questions. God wants to reveal Himself to you. I really appreciate your posting your thoughts. God loves those who come to Him with honest questions. This has been an encouragement to me. I would like to share some thoughts on the Christian Trinity when time allows. Thanks
OK, there is the post with the trinity question, not sure if I can help, but here are some thoughts- Christians believe in ONE God. That's all- One Now here is where I see the Trinity concept as a Christian- The Word was with God, the Word was God...the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. (John's gospel chapter 1) The Word of God is a part of God in the same way that what God speaks is from God. I don't know if that makes sense but we know that Jews believe God is a spirit. And we know that no man has seen God at any time. But we understand that God's words are a part of Him. For a Christian the Words of God are inseparable from God. We don't worship the Word of God we believe the Word of God. We worship God. Jesus was the Messiah come in the flesh from God. The Word made flesh is very important to our understanding of Jesus the Son of God. We believe Jesus to be inseparatable from God; and we are taught that from the Scriptures both old and new testament. Even though we understand God revealed as Father and God revealed as Son (Messiah) to be different persons, we do not separate them. They are in essense equal in representation of God to us. I know this a great difficulty for the Jew as it was in Jesus time, because they cannot see that God's Word could be made flesh- what is interpreted in the old testament as Emmanuel. This Son of God, the Word made Flesh is difficult to understand, just like the virgin birth of Jesus and the resurrection of Jesus from the dead (and His ascension to God's throne) Again we do not believe there is a separation between the Word of God made flesh and God who made the Word flesh. We do worship Jesus the Son of God and we worship the Father God (who is Jesus' Father), but we do not make a separate distinction between them as God. The Spirit of God is very prevelant to the Jews in the old testament. Again the Spirit is a part of God. The Spirit is not worshipped, the Spirit is represented by what a Christian would call the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of God works in the earth and in heaven. Since we do not separate the Spirit from God we Christians also see the Spirit one with God. The view of the trinity is that God as the Father, Son and Spirit are one God, not three. By Christian definition we do not worship three Gods, we only believe in one God inseparable as revealed to us by His own purposes for redemption, worship, and relationship - thus the phrase "one revealed in three" If I could make my own words living, and I could send my own spirit to work for me then I could begin to have human understanding of the trinity. Because I cannot understand how this could be done, I must also realize I do not understand the 'how' of the trinity. I do understand the why and that is very important. Our God is inseparable, yet has chosen to reveal Himself to us in His Divine purposes in three ways; as Father, as Son who in the flesh redeemed man, and as Spirit at work in heaven and earth. I can accept the trinity- Though I cannot possibly explain how God made the Word flesh or explain how the Holy Spirit works. If you can see that God has a purpose in this representation to man then you can probably accept the trinity as One God.
Why believe in anything? I don't think there's anything rationally that makes the Torah more believable than the New Testament, the Book of Mormon, the Dhamipada, the Vedis or any other sacred text. Its the act of faith that makes them believable.
I've enjoyed this thread very much! If I had to throw in my summary of my faith, I would do it like this: I don't know how to explain it. I'm a Christian, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, I believe that he died for my sins, and I believe He rose again three days later. I genuinely believe it but can't describe it. The Lord just came into my heart because I was open enough to listen, I think. I truly opened up, listened to my heart and allowed Jesus to come into me. I honestly believe with every fiber of who I am that He's with me and I'm with Him. I try my best to remain in constant prayer. By this, I mean, I thank Him for everything...or at least I try. I pray about my decisions, or at least I try. As a Christian, I try. I make mistakes, my conscience destroys me at times, I know what to do but elect NOT to do it and I try and explain it to myself. I truly understand that I'm an absolute sinner. I understand evil. God understands evil and doesn't allow it into His presence. We say MURDER is evil but actually God says lying is evil. That's why Christ was sent to die for us. "You didn't accept in the beginning and betrayed me. Here ya go - here's my Son. I'm goingto kill him for you. His blood is for you. His pain and torture is for you. Accept Him or don't accept Him - it's your free will and your choice. Either way - I love you but this is my son. Your sins die with Him if you accept that. It's a free gift. You do NOT have to earn it. It's a gift and you can accept or not but I love you anyway." That's how I've always seen it. Gifts are odd things. We say we'd love to have $500. If our friend offers us $500 with no strings attached, we will NOT take it. We can joke and say we would but we wouldn't. We strive for compliments but when they are given to us, we get shy and feel uncomfortable. There's something about not understanding a simple, free gift. I don't mind people bashing Christ in a joke because it's irrelevant to me. I don't care if the Shroud of Turin is real because it's irrelevant to me. My faith is in Christ - period. I'll try my best to show a good example but I'm going to fail and I hope you do hold me to the fire. Jesus has ALWAYS held me to the fire. With that said, we all have convictions. Most Christians are against abortion - ok. I am too.......BUT.........if my 14 year old daughter made a life-altering mistake like that, I would support her decision. I wouldn't make her pay for it for the rest of her life to 'teach her a lesson.' Again, that would be me. Yes, I am a sinner. All I can do is tell you what I believe if you ask and try to show you through the life I lead. All I can do is try to be Christ-like. If someone wants to make fun of my faith and belittle it, they can do that. The question is - do I respond as Christ would? To me, I'd rather not be made fun of but who would. Christ said that they will ALWAYS persecute you because of me. I'm at peace with that. He also said even before Abraham was.... ....I AM. I'm very MUCH at peace with that!
I am going to have to start asking you all to come preach in our church... thanks- awesome message I believe that message he just gave... anyway if you or solid would like to come and share that with some brothers and sisters in Christ just south of Houston let me know... Wow!! I love this thread.
But then my true identity would be exposed...and Doc Rocket's face would've been seen. Hmm..... Seriously though, what church do you go to? You've had some great posts! I've enjoyed reading them. It's weird - we all have strong feelings about religion and race but we rarely discuss them. I love discussing it all. I talk about this stuff with my students all the time. Actually, this week we've been reading articles about 'the N word', Michael Richard's meltdown, The Game's new CD, etc... They respond pretty well because I guess most kids can sense when you're being honest with them. They know I'm a Christian and I incorporate my faith when I can in the classroom. Not as something with curriculum but along the lines of respect. Maybe if they respect me and the way I lead my life, they'll remember that I'm a Christian. You witness where you can and how you can, I guess.
But He has contacted you, he is speaking to you now through other people, through the natural creation, through the Torah which you highly regard. He speaks to you through symbols, types, and shadows like the Passover Lamb. He is speaking to you. If you will open up your inner spirit, you will hear Him. He is the God of your fathers, He is also the God who was in Christ, your Messiah. Try this, take a chance, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Look up a Messianic Temple near you, and just go once. Please come back and tell me want you think.
Father's House- Freeport, TX you would enjoy the visit and as far as your identity... it would be safe if you wanted it that way...that is how a Christian shows love one to another... respect, integrity and keeping secrets- remember tale bearing and gossip is sinful .
