And as for the youngsters, the only ones I can see ready to pitch next year are Nieve, and Samson....maybe hirsh......Nieve is a mystery to me, cause I thought he was doing great in the first half, and they decided to not go to him anymore, and instead keep Wandy and Buchotz in the rotation......I thought that was bad managing as it cost us quite a few games..... But if we had somehow kept Pettite, we still could have given these youngters a chance, they had the 4th and 5th spot waiting for them......We could have easily gone with Roy, Andy, Woody, Nieve, and Hirsh, now we're stuck with Roy, Woddy, Nieve, Hirsh, Samson.......I dont think thats a pennant starting 5......and getting Jennings or Garland will cost u Willy plus 2 pithers.......so u're improving in one area, but getting holes in others......
I just saw that the Denver post said that the Astors have contacted the Astros about Jason Jennings. In return, the Rockies are asking for either Hirsh and Willy T or Hirsh and Dan Wheeler. I say HELL no to both trades
He had a GREAT 2nd half and was worth what he was getting - no doubt about that. He had a GREAT 2nd half. What I'm saying is that I think we can go younger, get similar stats from someone making...ohh....like 8 million less. That's my whole point. If Andy would've taken the 1 year - $14 mill deal - I'd have been happy with that. And I agree with you on that Nieve thing. I have NO idea why they did that. Weird - they just stopped going to him until later in the year. Supposedly, this new hitting coach is a teacher and works with mechanics. Hickey wasn't that type of coach and that's why he was let go. So, maybe the new guy can help these kids. One other reason, actually 2, I talk about Pettitte like this is because I DO feel like we were kinda stabbed a little and 2 because Drayton publically said, "We WILL get us a #2 pitcher." So, I truly don't think we'll hit the year without a #2.
Nieve started having elbow trouble... and he was still simply a 4-5 inning pitcher when he was in the starting rotation anyways, thus they wanted to get max use out of his stuff by addressing an area of need (the bullpen).
Doc, I know how you feel, but I can actually see where Pettite's coming from. He is <b>not </b> like Clemens, in that he is not looking out for his stats, or wins etc. He does not care about his ERA ballooning up to a 5 in the AL cause its not like his career is that of Clemems anyways.....What he does care about is playoffs, and winning in the playoffs (as he is the winningest pitcher in history there)....and honestly, even with the Stors adding Lee, the Yanks are the Yanks......he has Arod, Abreau, Johnny D, Matsui, Giambi hitting behind him....not to mention the unlimited reach of the management to make even more changes in the middle of the year if they need to go out and get someone...... My point is, the Yanks are the safer pick to make it to the show, as the Astros, if they are to make it, he himself would have to pitch marvelously and things would still have to go our way for us to make it....the pressure is less for Pettite in NY, he is not like Arod, he is considered a <i> true </i> Yankee....he could have a sub par year and fans will still love him there, and most probably they will STILL reach the playoff regardless.......he has a sub par year here, like last year, and we do not make the playoffs..... With Clemens its different. Him going to AL would mean giving up hopes of winning any ERA title, retiring w/ a last year of >4 ERA, constant nagging of the media, no personal services like he gets with the Stros.......and also, not winning in Houston could mean he failed kind of....He is like Jordan in baseball and will not do himself disservice. I really doubt he wants to win a World Series with the Yanks as bad as with Houston in the NL. That would be a <b>perfect </b> way to end his career......again the point being, I still dont buy the fact that Pettite going to the Yanks means we lose the Rocket as wel......Pettite doenst care about anything but getting to playoffs, so Yanks make more sense......Clemens can wait a half year, and if the Stros are decent, he'll come back to make another heroisc go at it
There are reports that Pettitte is trying to spin the signing as some sort of payback for the Astros going after Garland. If this is true, then I think he is a total ass-clown. Until three, or four days ago he said he was unsure if he even wanted to pitch again and said that he was not going to make a decision right before Christmas. Surely he can remember the screwing the Astros took by waiting on Beltran and not making contigency plans soon enough. If Pettitte is really going to go there in this PR spin, then I have no more respect for him. As for the baseball side of things, I hope the Astros aren't going to try and set up a 2004 model squad with a dominant bullpen covering up the holes in the starting staff. Neither the bullpen, or the lineup will be as good next year as that squad. The good news is that the division still looks pretty wide open. The Cubs have been active, but I'm not so sure they have spent their money wisely.
if pettite is actually spinning the story like that, he can f#$k himself. that's the roger clemens', "i'm above the team, i need the spotlight, you need to wait for me" attitude that i didn't see in pettite before. i liked andy when he was here, he conducted himself well and he didn't pine for the spotlight like his boy. hopefully that's just the media spinning it.
Even Clemens understood not waiting on his decision to retire or not when we didn't offer him arbitration last year so the team could focus on adding other pieces.
You're right and I do see where Pettitte's coming from. I do have respect for Andy - I think he's a good pitcher and I would've paid him a 1 year $14 mill dollar deal but after the Bagwell fiasco, I can certainly see where Drayton's coming from with regards to paying another player a HUGE guarnateed deal. I honestly don't think the Astros are that worried about finding that #2 pitcher - I really don't. I also think that whoever we get will put up comparable numbers to what Andy did. Hopefully, the kids IMHO get a legit shot to make the squad. Who knows - we'll see. Of course, I do love trades... ...especially BIG Rockets trades.
I almost agree with the sentiment that we should try and fill out our pitching staff with more Woody Williams types and save our money for another one or two legitimate bats. Basically, I think, even wth the relative parity in baseball these days, the Astros chances of winning the WS remain low with our without Pettite. I just think it'd be interesting to see at least one Houston team try and win with offense, not necessarily defense.
The thing that I didn't realize is that most of the monetary difference....$4 million will be eaten up by NY state Taxes.... So, basically Petitte went to NY for the same money.....or close to it. DD
According to reports, the Astros wouldn't add the 2nd year option. So it's actually a lot more money.
Good let them both Go !!!! I'm starting to wonder about them two...I'm sick of the Astros babying Clemens and giving him all this freedom to do as he wants. He is still a major league player that should be at every game all year. He gets paid millions and I don't care if he is one of the greatest players in the history of the game. Try telling your boss " yeah your gonna pay me this much and I'm going to come into work for half a days and I will only come on these days !!" Bye Roger and Andy its been nice but we need full time players and that means playing all season and that includes Andy because he is only good for the second half of the season....Now lets trade for a young gunner !!
finally, the voice of reason. i've been clamoring for Zito for weeks now. homeboy can pitch, and has much more left in the tank than Woody AND Andy. Zito is #1 and #2 material.
I think they should go after Zito as well. There is no guy left on the market that will make a significant impact on this team besides Zito so they might as well throw the rest of their money towards him.
Is Zito a $100M pitcher? Is that what he would cost? If so, what makes you think that the Astros would tie into another BIG long-term contract? He's young and is an ace...but dang, that contract would break the proverbial "bank". And by the way, they wouldn't pay him more than they are paying ROY - which just about single-handedly rules this idea out. I'd love to have him, and in this market he'd be worth that price (true aces are a bargain at any price)...but unfortunately, we do not have the Yankees Payroll (Opportunity). I don't see Zito as being a realistic alternative to locate our "#2". My favorite is Peavy - but he couldn't be had for the same reason that we wouldn't trade ROY. You just don't trade those guys - unless you are Billy Beane and it's all part of the plan.
