i like mo but, we didn't lose that much

I was hardly able to watch any games last season, but is this true? From the chats and user's posts I would think Mo had a MUCH better jumper than Kenny as that was one of the strong points of Mo's game.

Again, pleading ignorance, but if anything I got the impression Mo would do whatever the Rockets wished and wouldn't "demand" anything, so is the above true?

You say that we gain by starting Kenny instead of Mo. I say we lose a lot more. You now have one less C/PF that could pop outside for a 16-footer and draw an opposing center or PF out of the paint. You lose depth at the C/PF. You lose a player that, if left unguarded while you focus on Steve and Cat, can light you up for 8-10 quick points (I "saw" him do that at the beginning of games often last year).

For those that watched a lot of games last year:

1) Did Mo run the break well? How does he compare to Kenny.

2) Was Mo more of a go-to guy than Kenny?

3) Rate Mo's shooting with respect to Kenny's. I'm not talking just about FG%, I'm talking about the ability for his outside shot to set up his 10-foot-and-in game or a drive for a dunk/foul.

Often, when you lose a player, it's not what you lose statistically or that you've lost the 2nd best player at any particular position. The problem really is that losing that viable player (which Mo Tay definitely was) causes your rotation to be scrambled and a lot of your sets that revolved around the lost player's ability don't necessarily exist anymore. It also means other players (not just the ones backing the lost player) will be put into roles for longer durations or be played out of position. What we lost with Mo is very serious depth and indirectly some serious matchup problems.

 

It's all about perspective...

If you're of the "run and gun" sect, then Mo's injury is a hard blow. He was becoming very consistent in the second half of the season last year, to a point where you could count on him for 15 on a nightly basis. He has the unique ability to be effective facing the basket or posting up, plus he knew his range (only shot 4 three pointers last season). Thomas, on the other hand, jacked up 92 three pointers, making only 27%

If you're in the "defense wins championships" sect, then Taylor's loss is less critical. Kenny Thomas did get slightly more rebounds, blocks, and steals while playing four less minutes per game, but the difference isn't that significant. If Mo's defense and rebounding are "average", which is a safe assumption, then Kenny's would probably, in my opinion, be "slightly above average". Is a slight improvement in rebounding and defense worth a loss of 15-18 points per night? Personally, I don't think so. When it comes to rebounds, it's not always how many you get, but when you get them. I personally saw Mo Taylor get important rebounds late in games last year to secure victories

Most of the people here were in the "run and gun" sect, waiting for a bunch of 110-105 games. Might as well play to our strenghts, right?

 

I agree. But I can't resist adding this:

If you're in the "run and gun" sect, then you are in Rudy's sect for this team.

If you're in the "defense wins championships sect" then you are beating your head against the wall, because Rudy isn't listening...it is all about "attacking the zone" this year for Rudy. He has stated that, so why not try to understand it. Is it really fun to be a fan who yells theory with a coach, or is it more fun to figure out why Rudy believes the Rockets need to focus on fielding a high-octane offense based on the skill of the players. You are a backseat driver, arguing theory with a coach who is ignoring your opinion!

....ahhhhh....that felt good.

 

I'm curious, how is losing our starting PF, losing depth, our number 1 low post scorer, and a guy who had the weight and size to play center, and the range to drag opposing center away from the basket going to make us better!? Kenny Thomas doesn't give us a better outside shot OR inside game, his rebounding was SLIGHTLY better, and he doesn't give us a power game, he was getting pushed around himself. How does this possibly make us better!?

 

I also believe Kenny's game fits this team's needs better than Mo's. We can go on and on about how RT is all about run and gun this coming season. But let's not delude ourselves - halfcourt sets are not going to disappear off the face of the earth altogether and we will need guys to rotate on interior D in big possessions. KT fits that particular role better than Mo.

Of course I would much rather still have both of them on the roster w/o a doubt

 

And you can go on and on about how RT is wrong.

Sure our needs are def and rebounding, but losing Mo hurts our offense, so doesn't that change our needs, too?

If Kenny fit this team's needs better, then you are pretty much saying RT is wrong for starting Mo. I really don't get this. This isn't about "run and gun." This is about Rudy choosing perimeter attacks of a zone, which include transition, but Rudy is by no means ignoring half court sets.

<b>Rudy matches systems to player skills</b>

Rudy's coaching philosophy is to match a system with player skills, like Sloan did at Utah. He does not force a system on players. Other coaches are of the school of thought that you pick a system and have the players fit into it....like Rick Pitino. In college, this can work at top tier schools, because they can recruit the skills they need at a higher frequency than NBA coaches can. NBA coaches pretty much take advantage of opportunities presented to them...like us landing Francis and Mo and Mobley just exploding on the scene from the 2nd round. Rudy not only pick a system for them; it also takes advantage of Kenny's speed. Kenny needs to start away from the basketball to give him maneuvering room. Mo does that better.

The argument that Kenny is better than Mo because of defense/rebounding is discounting that Mo is better at offense and thus makes Francis and Mobley's life easier. Kenny is no defensive stud. So even with Kenny, Rudy is going to make the choice to attack the zone with his best arsenal of offense. It is a matter of choosing to ramp up your offensive fire power rather than worry about your defensive weakness. Balance of off. and def. is not always the winning choice for basketball teams.

<b>Why Even Say Rudy is Wrong?</b>

But really, what I don't get is why even second guess the coach. Is that your thrill? Is that your enjoyment? I'm serious. I'm not trying to mock you. I am about as opposite from that as you can get, though. No matter what the offensive/defensive schemes are, I don't second guess them. I watch them and learn them, because my enjoyment level as a fan increases when I know what the players are trying to accomplish. Speculating about outcomes if they only ran a different system or started different players is dream land, and not reality. Maybe that is fun to many, but I like talking about what I see.

I really don't get how people like to second guess a coaches choice of system or rotations...I really, truly don't. I have never had the inclination to do that. We aren't talking about choice of last second shots here, where you say, "Damn Rudy why not choose that other set we run." We are talking about the inclination to debate things that we never see on our court, for instance, like why don't we run the 76'er offense, based on fielding defensive role players around Francis. Oh OK, how about the Utah offense, the Laker triangle, the King's zipper.

Is it not more fun to learn what we are doing rather than debate what other teams are doing? We are talking about learning the team's system and what Francis, Mobley and Mo' were accomplishing last year throughout the game, especially the 2nd half when Mo was scoring 16ppg. Mo is better at our game than Kenny. You can trust Rudy on that one, for sure. And Kenny does not have the defensive skills worthy of switching our systems. Kenny will have to step up majorly with superior passing than Mo and a much improved midrange shot to match Mo's importance <b>in our system.</b>

 

okay, for people to say that kennys rebounding is slightly better than mo's is crazy. if given starter minutes kenny has shown he can get 10 or more bounds a game. in starters minutes mo has shown he can get 6. if that is slightly better, Antonio davis is a slightly better rebounder than mo

 

IVFL, I agree.

Kenny is a natural born rebounder. His ability to get off the floor faster and time the rebound are underestimated, imo. But, is it enough to say "<i>i like mo but, we didn't lose that much</i>"?

 

I was quite confident that HeyPartner would respond w/ a tirade of some sort spewing forth his grandiose knowledge of X's & O's and superior understanding of Rox analysis. Many threads in the past I have avoided posting in order to save myself the hassle of having to deal w/ his insecurity complex. I guess this thread my defense mechanisms unfortunately lapsed.

Now, for some reason HeyPartner has been experiencing this delusion that he and RT hang out at the bar every nite and he has gotten to know exactly what RT is thinking and planning regarding the upcoming season. Therefore, anyone whose speculations fall contrary to HeyParter's inside scoops MUST be putting down and disrespecting RT almost as if it were to his face.

I really don't have any more tolerance for his b****ing sermons every other thread. It's not my fault he has nothing better to do at his techy job and must vent his frustrations. My sympathy is exhausted. I just want to be able to post about the Rox w/o the drama of being needlessly scolded by a nobody.

 

*sigh*

That is the second time you've said "deluded" in this thread. Who is imposing the superior knowledge.

So does it make you feel better to interpret my writing as a scolding and a tirade? Take a breather man, and reread the thread and please tell me where I scold you. So, whose insecurity complex are we talking about?

Oh, nice double jab at my personal life while you are at it. Might as well try to hit me good.

If you want to talk basketball, which is why we are here...then talk basketball. Don't take quick offense when no personal assault was tossed at you, and then say that I'm the one on a tirade. tirade??? deluded??? spewing??? scolded???

Can someone explain to me where that comes?

What? Should I apologize. Oohhh, the evil crisper didn't agree with me after I called the "run n gun" deluded.

 

pippendagimp

if you want to give it another read, my point was that our system is chosen by Rudy to match the players. Saying Kenny is better suited for us than Mo is saying Rudy is wrong about either picking the system or picking the rotations. Do you mind explaining further? Or do you just want that idea to go unchallenged.

 

You don't have to hang out with Rudy T to know that Rudy T felt Mo fit the Rockets better then Kenny. Mo got more minutes then Kenny, a bigger contract then Kenny, a bigger role then Kenny, and started over Kenny, so obviously Rudy felt Mo fit the team better then Kenny in an expanded role.

 

I think all of you are right.

Mo is a better all round player than Kenny.

Saying this does not imply Kenny is not a good player.

Rudy T will find a way to exploit Kenny's talents next year.

Mo gets every rebound that bounces right to him.

Kenny will move his feet and bang to get a rebound.

Kennny has a better low post game than Mo.

Kenny's mid range jumper is good but not as good as Mo's.

Kenny was asked to shoot threes while Mo was not.

Both Kenny and Mo are at best average defensive players.

Kenny's future with the team has always been as a backup 4 who can give you 20 quality minutes/game. With the unexpected availability of Griffen in the draft, Kenny no longer has a future with the Rockets. This next year Kenny will be showcasing his talents for next NBA employer. I expect both the Rockets and Kenny take full advantage of this bad, unfortunate situation.

 

Does this mean we will let Kenny go, because Mo' will come back 100%? You sure are true to your moniker--No Worries. lol

 

Kenny has much better foot work and more moves down low.
And he is a better rebounder.The points we lost from mo will be gained by rice.The only thing that really hurts us is our depth now.

 

Per 48 minutes,

Mo Averages 9.2 rebounds/48 min
Kenny Averages 11.0 rebounds/48 min

and don't come with the 'Kenny doesn't get enough minutes' as Kenny got 25 min/game and Mo got 29 min/game.

To put this in perspective,
Steve Francis 8.3 rebounds/48 min
Kelvin Cato 10.8 rebounds/48 min
Hakeem 13.3 rebounds/48 min
Marc Jackson 12.3 rebounds/48 min
Jahidi White 15.5 rebounds/48 min


I could go on, but while Kenny may be better than Mo, he's still below average in the rebounding catagory for NBA 'rebounders' and he's also a poor scorer/shooter.

 

I disagree. Thomas has good moves, but often shows the inability to finish those moves by putting the ball in the Basket. Putting the Ball in the Basket is Maurice's specialty.

Make no mistakes, we have lost a significant part of our offense. We will adapt, but to say the Rockets are better for it(re: original post) is lunacy.

 

Why speculate on if the Rockets are better? Only the season results will tell. Besides if someone is trying to compare Kenny Thomas to other rebounders, you can not just do a comparison on the stats (rebounds per game) alone. You have to consider the total team framework. For example, Jahidi White rebounds 15.5 rebs per game (according to another member of this board)..who else is on his team that can rebound? True he has talent to rebound, but is he the only true rebonder on the team? Kenny, when he was in the lineup, had to contest with Hakeem and Francis for rebounds. So my point is ..to correctly compute a rebounding comparison of PF in the league, the comparison would have to take into account team composition, player ability, and player stats, etc...

 

What is most likely is that by the end of next season, Eddie will be getting starters minutes.

One year from now, Kenny will be gone and Eddie and Mo will fight for minutes.

Two years from now, Eddie should be the starter.

Three years from now, Eddie should be an all-star.

Four years from now, Eddie should be league MVP.

Five years from now, Eddie should be the NBA championship MVP.