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Supremes: hear cases on race-based school admissions

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Dec 4, 2006.

  1. basso

    basso Member
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    http://www.nysun.com/article/44548

    The article is from the NYSun, which explains the Spitzer angle, but the cases originated in Seattle and Louiville. In general, I favor color-blind school assignments, but recognize there are some tangible benfits to ethnic diversity in schools and society at large. I would favor a system the kept preferences, but changed the criteria from race/ethnicity/sex, to economic status. not just in elementary and secondary schools, but in college admissions as well.

    [rquoter]Spitzer Argues For Race-Based School Admission

    BY JOSEPH GOLDSTEIN - Staff Reporter of the Sun
    December 4, 2006

    Governor-elect Spitzer will face a final legal test as attorney general before the U.S. Supreme Court today as the nine weigh arguments he makes in a legal brief arguing that local officials should be allowed to consider race in assigning students to schools.

    The Supreme Court is set to hear two cases today that call on it to decide whether school officials can assign students to individual public schools according to race to further school integration efforts.

    The cases ask the court to decide the legacy of Brown v Board of Education in an era when schoolchildren are two and three generations removed from overt state-sponsored segregation.

    The cases are brought by the parents of children who have challenged school assignment decisions in Louisville, Ky., and Seattle. In Louisville, the school board considers race in assigning students to schools and deciding whether to allow students to transfer between schools. In Seattle, the school boards consider race to assign students to schools in instances when schools receive too many applications.

    The two cases question whether cities can decide for themselves to send students, according to race, far from their neighborhood schools in an effort to achieve racial integration.

    The Louisville case in particular calls on the justices to consider the history of school integration efforts. Between 1976 and 2000, the Louisville schools were under a federal court decree aimed at eliminating the vestige of state-sponsored racial segregation. For the first decade, that involved a busing program that randomly assigned some students to certain schools regardless of where they lived.

    Although a federal judge had said the school district had complied with integration efforts and gave up federal jurisdiction in 2000, the elected school board still uses a race-conscious program in assigning students to schools. Under the program, a student's race is considered when the school's enrollment of black students threatens to fall below 15% or rise above 50%. Blacks comprise 34% of the students in the school district.

    The case calls on the Supreme Court to decide whether the legacy of Brown champions the ideal of either a colorblind school system or a racially integrated school system. In separate briefs, the solicitor general of the United States, Paul Clement, and the Attorney General of New York, Eliot Spitzer, provide different answers to this question.

    Mr. Spitzer, in a brief filed on behalf of 16 states, including New York, argues that the court should permit the race-conscious programs to allow efforts at integration to continue.

    "It would be ironic, indeed, if after five decades of supervising the desegregation of public schools… the Court now profoundly limits local authorities from finding ways on their own to maintain their integrated schools if they so choose," Mr. Spitzer's brief reads.

    But Mr. Clement filed a brief that provides a reading of Brown that could resonate with the idea of the "colorblind Constitution" embraced by Justice Scalia. Once the court order governing the Louisville school district was lifted in 2000, racial classifications can no longer be constitutional in deciding school assignments there, says the Clement brief, which is filed on behalf of the Bush administration.

    Mr. Clement says the use of racial classifications in both Seattle and Louisville are designed to "achieve a pre-determined racial balance rather than to eliminate the lingering effects" of segregation.

    Mr. Clement said that perpetuating racial classifications in school assignments is not part of "the path forward."

    In his brief, Mr. Spitzer argues that the court should "afford a degree of deference" to the decisions that states and school boards make aimed at reducing racial isolation in schools.

    Legal observers will be watching Justice Anthony Kennedy's questions closely during today's arguments. With Sandra Day O'Connor retired, Justice Kennedy could be poised to play the role of the swing vote on issues of affirmative action.

    In the Louisville case, there is only one plaintiff, Joshua McDonald, a white student who was 5 years old in 2003. His lawyer claims that Joshua's request for a school transfer was denied because he was white and that the school he was assigned to and hoped to leave was close to becoming predominately black. The effect of the school board's decision goes beyond inconvenience, according to the plaintiff's briefs.

    The school district's decision "denigrates a 5-year old's self-worth and self-esteem by comporting him to be color coded throughout his educational career," according to the brief.

    In Seattle, parents say that students are subjected to long bus rides as a result of the program and that has led some parents to move out of the city or send their children to parochial schools, according to the brief.

    Some race-conscious school assignments would require students to have made round-trip commute of up to four hours, according to the brief.

    The program in Seattle takes race into account only in instances in which students apply to high schools that receive too many applications from incoming freshmen. As a tiebreaker, schools used, among other considerations, race in an effort to bring the schools closer to a student ratio of 40% white and 60% non-white. Because of the lawsuit, the school system has stopped using race as a consideration, it says.

    The cases are Parents Involved in Community Schools v. Seattle School District and Crystal Meredith v. Jefferson County Board of Education.[/rquoter]
     
  2. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    This case isn't raced based school admissions but integration vs. segregation.

    Different issue, though I'm sure the Sun wishes it wasn't.
     
  3. basso

    basso Member
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    not quite, and i appreciate your impugning of the sun's motives. if you actually read the article before typing you'd find that's it's a straightforward news article, not an editorial.
     
  4. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Actually, yes quite. The Sun does in fact wish that affirmative action was being revisited (which is why they used that headline) or else is too dumb to appreciate the distinction. That's why you brought it up in your preface.

    Either way it's moot - this is an integration/desegregation case.
     
    #4 SamFisher, Dec 4, 2006
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2006
  5. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    No they're two completely different issues. Admissions deal with affirmative action and the idea of giving preference to minorities in admissions policy.

    This deals with school desegregation and is a legacy of the brown v. board of education decision. Years ago, the Supreme Court ruled in Miliken v. Bradley, that inter-district desegregation programs could not be mandated by the federal government or the Supreme Court and in essence sent the issue to local officials. This case is questioning the entirety of race based busing and placement programs.

    These types of programs are mandates from school systems that specifically place students in specific schools based on race. Affirmative Action only weighs race in the decision calculus of university admissions.
     
  6. deepblue

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    This is pretty stupid, instead of fixing the schools, let's bus the students halfway across the city. This isn't going to make the bad schools any better.
     
  7. ShakeYoHipsYao

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    They aren't trying to make the bad schools better, except in that they beleive that diversity improves the quality of education (which countless studies show that it does).

    They can "fix" the bad schools and still bus. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

    Try not to call things "stupid" when you clearly have little understanding of them.
     
  8. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    It's also a funding issue. After the Supreme Court struck down court ordered inter-district busing, white flight became a huge issue. White families basically abandoned urban centers of major cities, functionally re-segregating the school system by having a plethora of suburban, predominately white schools and a group of urban schools that were made up of mostly minorities. Also, those white schools got the benefit of higher property taxes in relation to urban schools which got jack and a wide educational inequality rose and still exists. Busing programs not only increase diversity but also allow for a more equal distribution of money across the board.

    A great example is here in Austin. Austin proceeded with busing programs on its own and the results were actually pretty good. Schools on the east side (which is much poorer than the west) were exemplary and award winning. Now that those busing programs have ended, the east-west dichotomy has reared its ugly head back into the school system. Schools like LBJ High School in the east are no a shell of their former selves while schools in the West have brand new facilities.
     
  9. basso

    basso Member
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    The real issue is whether antidiscrimination laws, including constitutional amendments, ban discrimination altogether. conservatives would argue that they protect individuals from discrimination, liberals that discrimination is fine in the pursuit of diversity or integration. i wonder what dr. king would say.
     
  10. geeimsobored

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    But here's the kicker, school desegregation was a court order, not a legislative mandate and as a result, we're stuck with the vagaries of what the court intended and how the court wants to approach this. The original supreme court that eliminated segregation also pushed forward a series of court-ordered desegregation programs designed to integrate schools through programs like busing. Those programs were later ruled illegal on federalism grounds.

    There's no specific law that would outlaw busing or any other integration program. That's why, personally, I hate it when we're forced to rely on court rulings for race issues because while the court was progressive at the time (no way Congress was prohibiting segregation at that time), the vagueness of court rulings have actually r****ded progress in many ways and have allowed politicians on both sides to sling mud at each other over how they interpret the desegregation mandate.

    I also don't think Dr. King would really have a problem with this. In fact most of the core followers of Dr. King were the biggest proponents of court ordered desegregation programs. Dr. King's movements was not only a challenge to the discrimination inherent in our laws but also in our society itself and these types of programs were the first steps to challenging that at the time.
     
  11. basso

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    agreed, and the same logic applies to abortion and gay marriage- the court shouldn't intervene.

    yes, in 1954. but 40 years later the remedies have run their course.
     
  12. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    The remedies never happened though. They took years to actually implement and The Supreme Court struck down inter-district busing programs in the early 70s.
     
  13. basso

    basso Member
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    integration never occurred?
     
  14. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    Not nearly to the extent to which it should have. White flight was a pretty predominant thing in the 70s after the Milliken decision. Look at our urban areas today and the racial balance in said areas. Then look at our suburbs.

    The Milliken v. Bradley case basically shut down court ordered desegregation programs. As a result we now have the modern suburban v. urban school dichotomy. White flight just reinforced a system of de-facto segregation that still plagues many cities and communities.

    So no, integration never at the level it should have.
     
  15. deepblue

    deepblue Member

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    It is stupid when you force a kid out of his own town and bus him/her half way across the city.
     
  16. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    It's equally if not more stupid to just let our school system rot for convenience's sake.
     
  17. ShakeYoHipsYao

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    You make it sound like the white kids are the victims. If their parents weren't so racist, they wouldn't have fled the city when the first black family showed up on their block.

    What we have now is worse than "seperate but equal." Property taxes in wealthy, predominantly white areas pay for the upkeep of predominantly white schools, while black schools suffer.

    Either rich districts should share their tax revenue (robin hood), or schools should be forcefully intigrated by legislative mandate. I would prefer that both happen.
     
  18. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    You are correct
    they are all trying to make sure THEIR kids get into the good schools
    and those. . . 'other' kids get into the crappy ones

    honestly . .. I would not be surprised to see DeFacto Segregation soon

    Rocket River
     
  19. deepblue

    deepblue Member

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    What, only the white family want to move to a good town with a good school system? I thought everyone wanted to do that. Is there a law says only white people can move into certain towns?

    Working hard, buy a house in a nice area, provide your kids with good education, what's wrong with that? I thought that was the "American Dream"?

    Why do parents work hard? They try to earn a good living for their kids, it doesn't get any simpler than that. Why do you want to penalize people for that?
     
  20. deepblue

    deepblue Member

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    No, just forced busing should not be the solution.
     

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