Op, the talk around the bbs is, White, Miller, Mcoy... etc. Is there something that we may be seriously looking at, that no one knows about? Are we playing spin doctor, hoping Jackson will fall into our laps, at the promise of a big payday after some big performances?
I'd love to be eating Curry and Rice in a Taylor-made front line. Sorry, really lame As a side note, Curry (and Chandler) still is not signed, and I can't think of any reason why not. Griffin isn't signed, because the 300K we save by waiting could actually make a diferrence. I*think* Curry is an SFX client-the super powerful combo of Falk/Tellem who also happen to represent one Maurice Taylor, and one Eddie Griffin. Falk has some strong opinions on the Bulls. I thought Curry was the best player out of the draft, because he can dominate. Any deal that got him would have to give up draft picks like crazy. What bad contracts do the Bulls have? Oakley has 1 year left. Mercer is bad (long term, 6.75 this year), but the Bulls have no other real SG, unless you consider Eddie Robinson. Anyhow opie, you forgot the perhaps the biggest piece to Golden State's backcourt-Jason Richardson. They're supposed to be moving Hughes to PG, which assuming Mookie's still around makes Cummings #3 on the PG chart, no?
oeilpere: Thanks for the reply. I also believe Mooch to be the best choice. But, what I meant was plan B. If we don't/can't sign Mooch, wouldn't Pack be better than Omar? Given the liability at the 1, it would only be about 10mpg, with about the same time at the 2. By bigger role, I meant his ability to play the 2. Right now the only real backup for Cat is Steve. Actually, I'd feel better if we had 4 gaurds. To me, Pack's ability at the 2 would cancel out his liability at the point. Not to confuse the issue with useless facts (statistics), but last years stats for Moochie and Pack are pretty close. (Roughly, Pack is the closest to Mooch statisticly, of all the other options I found. Pack has a slightly higher apg average with slightly less mpg. Actually the highest assist per 48 min average of the other said options. Ranks #4 in the NBA in Assists Per 48 Minutes(11.2) ) Hopefully, Mooch will make it a moot point. But for the sake of speculation, in case of plan B, and we could only add one gaurd to the roster and I bought Pac-man a Moochie wig .... Don't know when I became Pack's agent. Seriously though, all things being equal, do you believe Sura ($4+ to 6+Million a year for 3-4 years as a backup) and Jackson would be a better move than Pack (liabilities) and Jahidi ? Thanks again!
Robert "ice" Pack is one of the most injury prone players in the history of the NBA. While he may be a talented player, the guy always seems to get injured. Just check the number of games he played over the past seasons.
OP, Although I'd have to agree the Eddie Curry rumors have to be real remote, what would you say it would take to make that deal?
Thanos: In the 2000-2001 season, Pack played in 74 games, started 11 and averaged 17mpg. Right at 90%. Steve and Cat right at 96%. Mooch 100%. Mo T 84%. Bobbie Sura 65%. Nick Van Exel 86% Avery Johnson 67%
Hottoddie: Why ask for Jake Voskuhl? He is undersized, has never recovered from his injuries and is not a rebounder. Why not go for Chicago's Dalibor Bagarac -- a much bigger (7'1" 280-lbs), younger, better true center with playing experience -- to round out the trade?
I agree ... personally, I'd prefer to (1) keep all 5 and waive/IR Corie Blount or (2) keep Jackson as the backup C/PF and find a new home for Foyle. But any way you slice it, IMO, the projected future C/PF rotation is Dampier/Fortson/Murphy, so it doesn't make too much difference in the long run if Jackson is the first one off the proverbial island. I'm loathe to dispute anyone who says nice things about Teego (and I liked the Teego/Hughes chemistry when they played together last year), but don't overlook the extent to which a veteran PG can be a coach's security blanket. In addition, Cummings did not mesh well with Cowens' offense last year, and as a result he steadily lost confidence as the season progressed. I have no idea how well (if at all) that situation has been addressed.
Voskuhl was used just as a cap filler (Miller was the prize that I was after) & my thinking was that Chicago would've been very willing to dump him. His contract has a team option after next year, which means that we could just waive him this year & his salary would be off the books next year. Bagaric has 2 more years on his contract, at twice Voskuhl's salary & we would've needed all the cap space we could scrape up to sign Jackson. I originally wanted to try to get Ruffin, but I understand he's worked on his game & might not be as available. I guess it's all a moot point if you read OP's post, in which he points out how Miller & Collier's style of play are very similar & wouldn't give Rudy the versatility that a Collier/Jahidi or Cato would.
Okay, that makes sense. However, I think Bagarac will be a much better player than Miller, although Miller is better now.
getting AJ doenst change anything. we never got cook to help us this year. we knew it was a project...maybe at least 3 years before he even plays regularly. AJ is here to help now...cook is our future pg probably. and just in case theres an injury, we have another pg to bring up. it works out well. he can learn alot from nve and aj. as for the contract, basically kiki is doing a few things (1) establishing himself as a new gm and not gonna get pushover (2) trying to lower cooks ego which is quite large as im sure youve heard (3) not giving him what he doesnt necessarily deserve. you guys are making this into a much bigger thing that it really is. does it make ANY SENSE at all to get this guy for the future but just let him go before he plays at all. we want him - nothing has ever changed that...yet...maybe come february we dont want him anymore. but for now, we do.
1 - vo is a sg. but mccloud and posey can play a little pg if need be. very little though now that we have aj and cook. mccloud had a 20+ assist game last year. 2 - pack is gone. 3 - cook may be the 'odd man out' this year but thats cuz hes not ready. you just dont dump him. you just dont. you let him develop or learn on the bench. what does denver gain by letting him go. nothing. we can keep him and maybe reap some benefits in 2003-4.
Thanks for the intelligent posts guys - But we are getting away from the main focus of my argument - that Omar is available. Even in the strangedst stretch of the imagination, Kiki and the Nuggets and their realtionship with Omar Cook is bizarre if they are trying to establish him as a key player in the coming years. He is not asking for very much ... etc, etc, etc - My points: - if he is the PG of the future, or if he is being groomed for a key role even .... why not give him the semi-first round money they bargained for ... we are NOT talking mountains here ... we are talking walking scratch ..... - historically, the Nuggets have never given a player 2 or more years to "develop". I cannot be convinced they have decided to change their horse in mid stream ... or if you prefer chnage their lepoard spots this year ... this year, Kiki or no Kiki. - AJ/Van Exel/ and eevryone else who was shifted/brought-in ... tells me they have Omar as redundant, an afterthought .... not go through all of these changes just to keep accomadate him or keep him "red shirted" for two years ...
NugzFan, Why would a team that is on the way up draft a project, that won't help them for 3 or more years, when they need help elsewhere? I could see them doing it if Cook was a sure thing, but he's not. Imho, you only draft projects after you have your team assembled, or are in the process of starting your rebuilding process(see Clippers) & are serious playoff contenders. Otherwise, you're screwing the fans over, because you know that the team isn't going to lower ticket prices during their rebuilding process. The only reason that I can see, would be, if he was the best available player at the time & they felt that they could trade him to another team for a veteran player to fill a need. After all, PG is the hardest position to fill, other than the center position.
available how? trade or to sign? and yes negotiations havent ended yet - so? thats why they call it negotiation. they talk until they agree. its not the first time this has happened...or 2nd...or 100th.
why? cuz it cost us little and his contract probably wont cost much either. plus we have the advantage of having 2 good pgs so getting cook on the court right away isnt needed. we have time. it could work out very well, timing-wise.
Hottoddie, What you may not realize is that at nearly 30, Van Exel is a couple of years older than the Nuggets' other core players (LaFrentz, Posey, McDyess), and his "window" of effective playing years may be shortened further by his chronic knee condition. In three years, LaFrentz/Posey/McDyess will be in their prime, but Avery Johnson will be out of the league, and Van Exel may no longer be able to play starter's minutes (similar to, say, Tim Hardaway now). Young point guards take a few years to develop. So now is the <i>perfect</i> time for Denver to start grooming a future PG. Something else that should be noted: the Nuggets have already made an offer to Cook. As a result, his choices are to either (1) sign the contract on Denver's terms or (2) go to Europe or elsewhere to play, with the Nuggets retaining his rights. Vandeweghe has made fairly clearly that he'd like Cook to choose option 2, and the entire negotiation has probably been conducted with an eye toward pushing him in that direction. But making him an offer shows that the Nuggets want to keep his rights, regardless of how things turn out. Since the Nuggets have all the leverage, there's no reason for them to simply cut Cook loose. IMO, anything who thinks he'll be set free to choose his own NBA team is dreamcasting.
NugzFan, I guess OP knows best. http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1002,90~148769,00.html Agent wants Nuggets to trade Cook By Marc J. Spears Denver Post Sports Writer Sunday, September 16, 2001 - Denver general manager Kiki Vandeweghe said Saturday draft pick Omar Cook could be traded since contract terms cannot be reached. Cook, a former St. John's standout, was the 32nd pick of the NBA draft in June. The Nuggets offered the 19-year-old point guard a partially guaranteed one-year contract that could become fully guaranteed if he is on the team's roster Dec. 1. Aaron Goodwin, Cook's agent, wants the rookie to sign a guaranteed one-year contract before the season. Goodwin added all the Nuggets would guarantee in their current offer was $50,000. He added the 31st pick, Gilbert Arenas, received a two-year, $850,000 guaranteed contract from Golden State. Cook could be traded or the Nuggets could retain his draft rights, thus not allowing him to play elsewhere in the NBA. "Our situation is we have one of the best point guards in the league (Nick Van Exel), and since draft day we signed a very experienced point guard (Avery Johnson)," Vandeweghe said. "So at this point, we are going to look at other options (regarding Cook). "I want what is best for the kid. If we can't give him what he wants or what his agent wants, I would like to help him go elsewhere." Cook ranked second in the Rocky Mountain Revue summer league in assists (6.5 per game) and also averaged 1.7 steals, but he made just 20 percent of his shots and averaged 4.2 points. During his lone season at St. John's, the native of Brooklyn, N.Y., averaged 15.3 points and was second nationally in assists (8.7). Ambrose "Pop" Inman, Cook's cousin and manager, said he believes the Detroit Pistons are interested in acquiring Cook. "I want Denver to negotiate, treat this kid fairly and bring this kid to camp," said Goodwin, disgruntled about his efforts to contact Nuggets officials. Vandeweghe is more concerned about improving the Nuggets' front-court depth. Front-court players under contract include all-star Antonio McDyess, Raef LaFrentz, Kevin Willis and Aleksandar Radojevic. Dan McClintock, a center drafted by the Nuggets in 2000, signed a contract to play this season in Europe. Ousmane Cisse, a forward from St. Jude High School in Montgomery, Ala., drafted in the second round in June, was not offered a contract. The Nuggets asked him to play this season overseas. Vandeweghe said he was told by team doctors that Cisse, who has had knee injuries, isn't expected to be healthy enough to play again until January. If the Nuggets don't sign Cook, they might consider re-signing veteran point guard Anthony Goldwire, a free agent. Asked if the Nuggets will sign Cook, Vande-weghe said: "I really can't say. I don't know where it will go." Goodwin said Cook is "frustrated" and "he doesn't want to be where he's not wanted." Vandeweghe said contract talks with the agent of talented but troubled free-agent guard J.R. Rider will continue this week.
