I agree with everyone that said it is a POSSIBILITY the Rox would have lost this or other close games if the starters haven't played that long. However, let's think a bit: 82 games? Playoffs? Is JVG really not too fond of practising the starters? Or are the starters not too willing on practising and that's the way to keep them in form? Cause, seems to me even an athlete needs some rest to come from somewhere? You can't work all day with game tension in your shoulders. Eventually they have to be rested, else their actual useful playing years will diminish. Unless the Rox will do really well this year, so at least the players burden is for a cause. But let's not be too negative. At least the team is winning, right?
Actually Phil Jackson is known to not trust inexperienced players. He plays to win. In fact, I don't remember him giving many developmental minutes to guys who aren't ready yet. Can you find some examples of where he played rookies who aren't ready significant minutes in order to develop them?
Two points: I am on the side of fresh 4Q legs - I 've watched JVG too long wearing his players out and seeing with my own eyes like the other night when two of our starters hit the side of the backboard with shots in the 4Q. And as far a Juwan - his stat line was nothing last night - and I remember hearing both of his shots were blocked last night. He used to be a stud, he means well but he may as well be an old Knick - he has no gas left. His defense is nothing but porous - so pls explain how Novak can be worse? In fact at 82games.com you will find Novak's negative +/- is slightly better than Juwan's. But then Novak is a rook who can learn and improve - he has an upside, Juwan does not. Oh and Vspan actually has a positive +/- and 3rd best Roland rating on the team. But I guess now it is time for someone to chirp in about useless stats, blah blah blah.
It really depends on what you mean by "inexperienced" and "aren't ready." The examples of Jackson playing the types of players in your category far exceed those of JVG's. Right off the top of my head: Tony Kukoc of the Bulls. Devean George, Mark Madsen, and Jannero Pargo of the Lakers. All in championship years. The only significant example with your moniker's alter ego is Luther Head. But then again Van Gundy was forced to do so, he didn't have any other choice.
Name rookies, worthy of playing time, that JVG sat on the bench in the past? Prove your point that JVG has a history of playing good rookies only when "forced to do so".
To address your point indirectly, how exactly are the Madsen and Pargo type good rookies by your standard or JVG's standard? And how are 10-14 mins of playing time per game not significant? Would they get more than 5 minutes of action under JVG? I seriously doubt it, and I believe anyone with a brain and not being JVG ass kisser would agree with me.
Check out www.82games.com. Hayes, Alston, Yao, McGrady, and Battier all have VERY positive +/- right now. The bench guys-- Snyder, Head, Howard, Novak (in his few minutes) have VERY negative +/-. The only mild exception is Mutombo. http://www.82games.com/0607/0607HOU.HTM So, the reason why the starters are playing so many minutes is that their substitutes have not proven to be effective and trustworthy so far when they played. This is NOT a "deep team" as of right now. The bench has to step up. In fact, I think Van Gundy's biggest questionable decision last night was sitting Hayes out almost all of the 4th qtr. His energy might have helped the Rockets stop the Knicks run earlier.
You insist on insulting people that don't agree with you. Fine. I don't have a brain and I'm a JVG **s kisser. I also might be a YOH (according to you). I won't go to your level. I just asked you to prove your point and you cannot. Simple as that. Name any rookies you like. I'm waiting. I know you've got another snappy insult that's off the subject so why don't you throw that at me now instead of answering the question. Or you can come out of the twilight zone and admit you cannot back up you assertion.
What yall wanna put novak and v-span in and lose the game? Just be patient Novak and v-span will get more playing time firther in the season
I apologize for the tone of my post but I thought you were more thick-skinned. You are free to call me a YOF or Jackson ass kisser, how's that? Now back to topic, don't you agree JVG's standard on playable rookies or "inexperienced" players is much tougher than, say, Jackson's? If you can't see this, you are ...
I don't go for name calling because it often brings out the worst in people. Some people here use it to try and stifle discussion about their favorite player(s) and hide from real issues. Compared to PJ, I don't think JVG is any less trusting of rookies. In Chicago, PJ loved old players instead of younger ones. He didn't have much patience for mental mistakes and one of the reasons the Bulls were so good was his insistence on smart, tough basketball. Developing rookies definitely wasn't one of his priorities. I think some people have the wrong impression of him. With his Lakers teams, Pargo and Madsen are career scrubs. My guess is JVG would have used them about the same as PJ, which wasn't very much. IMO, rookies are best starting the season slow and coming into their own as the season progresses. Right now it's all about winning. 95% of the focus should be on winning games because of the awful starts the last two seasons. The other 5% should be on growing Yao and Tracy into their roles. Yao is almost there while Tracy continues to struggle. As the season progress and we find an even keel, we can start worrying about Novak, V-Span, etc.
Avoiding a bad start for this season is probably the most convincing argument in your post, especially in light of JVG's last year on contract (currently). But I wouldn't call Madsen and Pargo's 10 MPG in their rookie season "not much." Moreover, I wouldn't put our Novak and VSpan in the same category as the two Lakers scrubs. The season is still early. I'll give JVG more time. But I am doubtful Novak and VSpan will end up playing anywhere near 10 MPG when it's all said and done.
The more I read these types of threads the more I believe that some of you guys just love to hear yourselfs complain. Its all about the "W" guys. JVG is currently working with a nine man rotation, and in the game last night against the Knicks nobody played more then 40 minutes. Everybody on this team is together, even the guys who are currently not getting playing time. You see them up off the bench when a play is made waving towels and cheering on their teammates. That is all I need to see to know they are completely behind the team and their coach. I feel pretty good about the rotation and the way they are playing right now. JVG knows what he is doing with this team contrary to popular belief by some of the self proclaimed experts on this board. How about focusing on some positives, here a few: Houston Rockets currently tied for fourth place in the western conference Dallas and Phoenix are currently in last place... Yao obviously has a lot of confidence in his game right now and is not afraid to take it to the other teams in the low block. And it appears his teammates are working very hard to get him the ball. When Yao has a good start and game its amazing how easy it becomes for the rest of our team to contribute. We currently have a three game winning streak going and won 3 out of 4 games being played in five nights. Well we will see what we are made of this coming week with games against Miami, Spurs, Bulls and Detroit. At least we get a full day of rest in between each game. GO ROCKETS!!!
I think there is a great chance Novak will get 10 mpg this season. He will eventually push past Padgett & Juwan on the PF depth chart. V-Span has a tougher road because Rafer/Luther/Tracy are better players than Chuck/Juwan/Padgett and the point position is more difficult to succeed in as a rookie. But if Rafer doesn't play well enough, V-Span will get his minutes eventually. What I completely disagree with (right now) is the "on the job training" focus by some. The Rockets don't have that luxury at this time. We need some blowout wins. When we get 15-20 point leads we've gotta keep or extended them to start the 4th quarter instead of going asleep. Then the rookies can get in garbage time, hone their skills and earn more meaningful minutes sooner than later. Don't worry, Novak's shooting and V-Span's hustling and defense will prevail. 76 games to go. IIRC, Sam Cassell was pretty much a zero (under Rudy, no less) most of his rookie season. His sizzle didn't start until late in the season and playoffs.
IIRC, Jackson didn't exactly play the Madsen and Pargo only in garbage time. In many situations, those so-called "scrubs" were inserted as real substitutions for starters. Now that's the kind of trust we are talking and what sets Jackson and Van Gundy apart.
I agree in principle, but in this case, I disagree on two fronts: 1. JVG did put backups in - who are Luther, Howard, and Mutombo if not backups? 2. Everytime Yao was out, Knicks started to catch up, and JVG had to put Yao back in. He didn't really have a choice. I remember clearly during the game with the Bucks. The commentators from Milwaukee said it many times:"Just keep it close when Yao is in, we will make the run when Yao takes a break". Second guessing is easy, but the truth is not that simple.
Up by 20 and we almost lost the game. They pulled within 5 with 2 minutes left in the game. What is the point of this thread?
