Students at Calif college ban Pledge of Allegiance

SwoLy-D · Nov 10, 2006

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061110/us_nm/life_pledge_dc
Students at Calif college ban Pledge of Allegiance
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Student leaders at a California college have touched off a furor by banning the Pledge of Allegiance at their meetings, saying they see no reason to publicly swear loyalty to God and the U.S. government.

The move by Orange Coast College student trustees, the latest clash over patriotism and religion in American schools, has infuriated some of their classmates -- prompting one young woman to loudly recite the pledge in front of the board on Wednesday night in defiance of the rule.

"America is the one thing I'm passionate about and I can't let them take that away from me," 18-year-old political science major Christine Zoldos told Reuters.

"The fact that they have enough power to ban one of the most valued traditions in America is just horrible," Zoldos said, adding she would attend every board meeting to salute the flag.

The move was led by three recently elected student trustees, who ran for office wearing revolutionary-style berets and said they do not believe in publicly swearing an oath to the American flag and government at their school. One student trustee voted against the measure, which does not apply to other student groups or campus meetings.

The ban follows a 2002 ruling by a federal appeals court in San Francisco that said forcing school children to recite the pledge was unconstitutional because of the phrase "under God." The U.S. Supreme Court struck down the ruling on procedural grounds but left the door open for another challenge.

"That ('under God') part is sort of offensive to me," student trustee Jason Ball, who proposed the ban, told Reuters. "I am an atheist and a socialist, and if you know your history, you know that 'under God' was inserted during the McCarthy era and was directly designed to destroy my ideology."

Ball said the ban largely came about because the trustees didn't want to publicly vow loyalty to the American government before their meetings. "Loyalty ought to be something the government earns through performance, not through reciting a pledge," he said.

Martha Parham, a spokeswoman for the Coast Community College District, said her office had no standing on the student board and took no position on the flag salute ban.

"If their personal belief is that they don't want to say the Pledge of Allegiance, the district certainly isn't going to dictate what they do," she said.

More than 28,000 students attend the community college, located in conservative Orange County, California, south of Los Angeles.
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they see no reason to publicly swear loyalty to God and the U.S. government???? WTF do they swear loyalty to, CANADA? Man, WTF.
I'm not even a citizen of the USA and this pisses me off. Sorry, I had to report AND vent.

Invisible Fan · Nov 10, 2006

OCC is a community college.

Besides, who the heck spoke the pledge of allegiance in college?

Dairy Ashford · Nov 10, 2006

SwoLy-D said:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061110/us_nm/life_pledge_dc
Students at Calif college ban Pledge of Allegiance
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Student leaders at a California college have touched off a furor by banning the Pledge of Allegiance at their meetings, saying they see no reason to publicly swear loyalty to God and the U.S. government.

The move by Orange Coast College student trustees, the latest clash over patriotism and religion in American schools, has infuriated some of their classmates -- prompting one young woman to loudly recite the pledge in front of the board on Wednesday night in defiance of the rule.

"America is the one thing I'm passionate about and I can't let them take that away from me," 18-year-old political science major Christine Zoldos told Reuters.

"The fact that they have enough power to ban one of the most valued traditions in America is just horrible," Zoldos said, adding she would attend every board meeting to salute the flag.

The move was led by three recently elected student trustees, who ran for office wearing revolutionary-style berets and said they do not believe in publicly swearing an oath to the American flag and government at their school. One student trustee voted against the measure, which does not apply to other student groups or campus meetings.

The ban follows a 2002 ruling by a federal appeals court in San Francisco that said forcing school children to recite the pledge was unconstitutional because of the phrase "under God." The U.S. Supreme Court struck down the ruling on procedural grounds but left the door open for another challenge.

"That ('under God') part is sort of offensive to me," student trustee Jason Ball, who proposed the ban, told Reuters. "I am an atheist and a socialist, and if you know your history, you know that 'under God' was inserted during the McCarthy era and was directly designed to destroy my ideology."

Ball said the ban largely came about because the trustees didn't want to publicly vow loyalty to the American government before their meetings. "Loyalty ought to be something the government earns through performance, not through reciting a pledge," he said.

Martha Parham, a spokeswoman for the Coast Community College District, said her office had no standing on the student board and took no position on the flag salute ban.

"If their personal belief is that they don't want to say the Pledge of Allegiance, the district certainly isn't going to dictate what they do," she said.

More than 28,000 students attend the community college, located in conservative Orange County, California, south of Los Angeles.
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they see no reason to publicly swear loyalty to God and the U.S. government???? WTF do they swear loyalty to, CANADA? Man, WTF.
I'm not even a citizen of the USA and this pisses me off. Sorry, I had to report AND vent.
Click to expand...

They're not ordained ministers or church parishoners, or in a religious temple, so no obligation to God. No constitutional obligation for loyalty, either, other than paying taxes and obeying the laws, which is actually more valuable than fake, phony hollow gestures. They're also paying customers, so if they don't want to do either of those things, it might be their right, depends on whether or not banning means disaloowing individuals to recite the pledge themselves, which sounds like its own free speech issue.

Saint Louis · Nov 10, 2006

I guess we should burn the infidels at the stake.

Rule0001 · Nov 10, 2006

How is anyone ok with this? It's a public school, funded by the US goverment, and they are banning the pledge? No one is putting a gun to their head to say the pledge.

CometsWin · Nov 10, 2006

Rule0001 said:

How is anyone ok with this? It's a public school, funded by the US goverment, and they are banning the pledge? No one is putting a gun to their head to say the pledge.
Click to expand...

They've banned the pledge at their own meetings. Big deal. Now if they started burning the flag or something crazy like that, well that's a different story.

Rule0001 · Nov 10, 2006

CometsWin said:

They've banned the pledge at their own meetings. Big deal. Now if they started burning the flag or something crazy like that, well that's a different story.
Click to expand...

If it was a private school I would agree. But the college is funded by public money. If they choose just not to say the pledge, fine. But to ban members from saying it on public property?

CometsWin · Nov 10, 2006

Rule0001 said:

If it was a private school I would agree. But the college is funded by public money. If they choose just not to say the pledge, fine. But to ban members from saying it on public property?
Click to expand...

Well there aren't a lot of details in the story but if they voted to ban the pledge then they probably had a tradition of saying the pledge before each meeting. Instead of banning it they could have just dropped the tradition since they didn't want to continue with it. They're college kids though so they want to stand up for principle and all that.

I don't think it matters that it's public property really if it's their meeting. They could ban people from chewing gum at their meetings or ban people from speaking French at their meetings. I think what they're doing is a lot more unpopular than it is illegal or anything.

Rule0001 · Nov 11, 2006

yea it would be much easier if it were on private property.
The word 'ban' makes it look bad.

losttexan · Nov 11, 2006

Rule0001 said:

yea it would be much easier if it were on private property.
The word 'ban' makes it look bad.
Click to expand...

yea the word ban does sound bad.

But as someone else mentioned, who said "the pledge" in college? really.

Maybe we should just go back to the original.

I pledge allegiance to my Flag,
and (to*) the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.

NewYorker · Nov 11, 2006

much ado about nothing....

Van Gundier · Nov 11, 2006

What's the punishment for saying the "banned" pledge?

halfbreed · Nov 11, 2006

Whatever you do, don't question these students' patriotism, though. You'll get called a neocon and a Bushbot.

geeimsobored · Nov 11, 2006

halfbreed said:

Whatever you do, don't question these students' patriotism, though. You'll get called a neocon and a Bushbot.
Click to expand...

Only bushbots and neocons would make snide, sarcastic remarks like that.

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Students at Calif college ban Pledge of Allegiance

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