1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Van Gundy's Problem, Managing PT, Trust

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by yobod, Nov 2, 2006.

  1. Zboy

    Zboy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    27,234
    Likes Received:
    21,958
    Here's what really gets me sometimes.

    JVG will sit the younger players on bench for a teeny weeney mistake they make but the veterans like Rafer Alston, Juwan Howard, and Ryan Bowen will get extended minutes. Even if those veterans CONSISTENTLY screw up and play bad.

    Why not just put the young players in and let them learn from those mistakes? Hell I would rather feel the pain of Novak, Hayes, and Baklava making mistakes than see Rafer spit out another ball, and make a boneheaded play. Atleast those young players can grow and learn from their mistakes. Rafer and JVG's ex-veteran players are "have beens." They are not gonna improve no matter how much you play them, and even if they do, the returns are not gonna be anything close to what you will get from the young ones.

    Practice experience is NOTHING compared to the game expereince. Young players need game experience!! But apparently JVG likes to make decision based on his practices.

    Throw Vspan out to the wolves and let him learn his way around DAMMIT!
     
  2. Freik

    Freik Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2004
    Messages:
    993
    Likes Received:
    34
    ONE GAME!
     
  3. Van Gundier

    Van Gundier Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trust? Novak wasn't doing anything on the court and the opponent's lead was only widening. They stopped the bleeding when he was out. Check out the +/- for the game, my guess is Novak was a negative.
     
  4. durvasa

    durvasa Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,895
    Likes Received:
    16,451
    Novak was -8 for the game. Padgett was -2. Luther Head, in only 12 minutes, was -14 (still in a funk, apparently). And Snyder, interestingly, was -16 (he played pretty much the whole game, except the second half of the second quarter and the first half of the third quarter).

    game flow
     
  5. rockingsoul

    rockingsoul Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2004
    Messages:
    482
    Likes Received:
    1
    I love panda express!
     
  6. hooroo

    hooroo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    Messages:
    19,308
    Likes Received:
    1,926
    as i suspected

    hayes & yao = team negative
    padgett was only a team negative whenever deke or head were subbed in.
     
  7. durvasa

    durvasa Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,895
    Likes Received:
    16,451
    Well, they were on the court for about 3 minutes together. Rockets scored 5, Jazz scored 7. That's hardly conclusive of anything. In fact, last season in 105 minutes the Rockets were overwhelmingly ahead (+16.9 per 48 minutes) with both Hayes and Yao on the court together.
     
  8. maopaopao

    maopaopao Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know why JVG change his lineup every time. The lineup changed almost every game in preseason.
     
  9. Van Gundier

    Van Gundier Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, the team lost by 10, so most players are in the negative territory, and notice ALL Jazz players are in the positive.

    Here's 82games.com's version, where guys were compared relative to team average, and on a per 100 posession basis:

    http://www.82games.com/0607/0607HOU.HTM

    Of course, a 1 game data has a lot of "noise", but it confirms what I said, the Jazz were generally widening their lead with Novak on the floor. They were not good with Padgett, but not as bad as Novak.

    Battier had a positive +/-. Having him in early foul trouble sapped the team of a lot of energy. Same goes with Yao. They need to figure out how to work with while happy refs.

    Snyder overall was a negative, but it seemed he disappeard to start the game and played better in the 2nd half.

    As much as people b**** about McGrady and Rafer's shooting, McGrady had the HIGHEST +/- on the team and Alston was the 3rd highest (crappy in the first, but instrumental in narrowing the gap later in the game). They were not the guys to blame.
     
  10. Hayesfan

    Hayesfan Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Messages:
    10,918
    Likes Received:
    383
    JVG's substitution patterns last year seemed erratic and illogical most of the season. And it continued in this game.

    I actually believe in the preseason games, when he was "trying out" players off the bench he did a better job with substitution.

    I don't exactly understand why Padgett was given so many minutes, why Howard and Vspan didn't even make it into the game, or why Chuck and Novak weren't intersperse more into the game to give the starters more breathing space.

    Especially since for a good portion of the game we had foul issues inside. Wouldn't it be logical to rotate people in and out and cut down on those fouls. Players are more likely to foul on defense if they are tired so giving them breaks will cut down on that fatigue.

    Maybe JVG was too busy watching the game to think about who on his bench could give his guys a break.
     
  11. jakedasnake

    jakedasnake Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2002
    Messages:
    2,731
    Likes Received:
    1,675
    I feel your pain, but believe me Novak will play more than Padgett in other games. He used Padgett because he is stronger and a better rebounder than Novak. Novak would have gotten killed by guarding Boozer on defense and rebounding. The Jazz have a rare frountcourt with good length and strength. They are probably one of the best frontcourts in the league when healthy. I also think this is why Mutombo played so much. I like both players but they don't bring enough offensively to merit playing more than 10 minutes. Padgett never shoots when he should. I just hope that we get more favorable matchups where Novak can come in and play 15 minutes and get in a rythym and drain some 3's. Also, I hope Hayes has more favorable matchups too so Mutombo doesn't have to miss wide open dunks again. Also, JUST PLAY BONZI!!!! He makes our team so much better and deeper just by standing on the court. Even if he hasn't played in 5 years and is in horrible shape, he is still the third most talented player on our team(maybe tied with Battier) and one of our best rebounders and competitors. Enough venting for now, I am just eager to see Bonzi play and how we utilize him. Wouldn't be surprised if he plays some PF from time to time because he is so strong.
     
  12. jakedasnake

    jakedasnake Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2002
    Messages:
    2,731
    Likes Received:
    1,675
    I am not up with all of these ratings but do assists and low turnovers play a big part in their rating. For example, TMac had an amazing night passing the ball with 9 assists and 1 TO. I assume that is why he had the highest +/-?
    As for Rafer his overall game really was not that bad as other people seem to think. Some people just hate the guy and will never get over it. I can understand complaining about his defense as a reason for the loss but his offense was no reason to bring the guillotine out.
     
  13. rv2843

    rv2843 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    1
    What's JVD's problem? He is a stereo-typed coach who doesn't know how to utilize what you have and what your players are good at. He only sees what he wants to. Look at Suns, whoever they acquire, he becomes a star.
     
  14. AggieDentist

    AggieDentist Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    1,243
    Likes Received:
    23
    from what i understand, these aren't "ratings." these are point differentials for when those players were on the court. for example, if padgett was -2, that means that, over the course of the total minutes he played, we were outscored by 2 by the Jazzholes.
    right?
     
  15. weslinder

    weslinder Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    12,983
    Likes Received:
    291
    For the +/-, that is exactly true. For the Roland Rating, the +/- is adjusted somehow.
     
  16. tbplayer22

    tbplayer22 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2006
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    0
    We should all understand JVG is going to take a little while before he figures out his rotation. But really did anyone else notice how Padgett had open shots and wouldn't take them. Isn't this something JVG harped on in the preseason for people to take open shots if they have them.
     
  17. JeopardE

    JeopardE Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    7,418
    Likes Received:
    246
    I'm sure JVG got on him for that after the game. He passed up at least two wide open threes to my knowledge. Those were shots that could have gotten us back into the game.
     
  18. MONON

    MONON Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,903
    Likes Received:
    935

    And that will cotinue to happen as long as Nash is their point guard.
     

Share This Page