that's what matters. you don't want an offense that racks up a crapload of yards but doesn't actually score many points same as with Defensive stats, I'd much rather have the #1 scoring D in the land than yardage D
...and when you don't the blame doesn't automatically shift to the OC. Jesus H. Christ, if freaking Greg Johnson hadn't pulled a damned Groin muscle and made his freaking FG's & XP's, and the Defense hadn't made some idiotic plays, then the final score is proably 26-10 or 29-14 and I bet I wouldn't have wasted a zillion hours on the internets today with this silliness. PERSPECTIVE
well if we're still the #4 scoring offense in the nation, then who cares? that stat doesn't include defensive and ST points as far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong, but only if you're 100% positive)
Adding up just the total scores from the games gets you the same total points ESPN is using for their scoring team leaders.
I'm certain that you understood what I said...you're dismissing opinions through your stereotyping. Irrelevant.
PERFECT answer, this epitomizes the kind of thing i'm talking about. Everything else is irrelevant, the armchair playcaller is correct.....that is why and how all 119 Division I-A coaches, good bad and ugly, are on the recieving end of this criticism.
Adamantly complaining? I don't start threads on this or run up a banner wanting Davis fired. I'm realistic, for whatever reasons he's part of the team. As for 'avoidable', it means you either learn from your mistakes or your boss changes things for you. I'd be happier if someone else called the plays. I'd enjoy the games more. That simple.
ok yeah, I just checked it myself on ncaa.org and that is right. so good point but hey, like I said earlier in the thread I'm not pro-Davis, just neutral-Davis. I think he's average/so-so. to me, not worth complaining about yet...maybe next year. I wouldn't have bet on a NC this year
wouldn't that depend on his replacement? it's not guaranteed that person would end up being better, unless you think that Davis is the worst one in the country right now. just sayin'
i'm used to agreeing with a lot of things you say on this bbs, but you're so far off on this argument it's baffling. you're being as dense as possible on nearly every argument we make and then reduce the arguments to silly things like "so you wanna throw to the covered receiver?" even though you know what people are saying and as if the only alternative we've proposed is the worst solution possible or as if we expect to score 60 on everybody we face. you even mention a call from the 3rd quarter against ou when nearly everyone has said they thought the second half was well-called, they just couldn't understand why someone had to actually tell davis to call it that way after calling it the other way has failed almost every single time he has tried it in his career, even going back to a different school. and then you somehow have started morphing into dadakota with the PERSPECTIVE ending to each post. please don't go that route. and here's another fact. 7 points against ohio state. and 7 points and 80 yards and 5 out of 6 drives ending in 3 and outs against ou in the first half before someone told the bad greg davis to go away and to pretend our players could make plays like the pass to shipley. UT isn't about rice and iowa state. it's about the ou game, the bowl game and championship games, and ohio state games in years we have them. if you consistently come up short in those, and do it the same way every single time, it doesn't matter what else you do. maybe if there was some variety to how we lost those games, it wouldn't bother people so much. like in 2004 when we only scored 27 on kansas and 22 on arkansas. you rarely hear those brought up against davis even though the offense underperformed. but that's because they really just seemed to be off games where weird things happened and we didn't score like we should. we put up yards but no points on kansas. and i don't remember against arkansas. but in neither case did it seem like we went into our little shell and let the defense dictate the game or played not to lose or made horrendous play calls. and so people didn't just jump on davis. it's when the same thing happens over and over for 5, 6, 8 years that people get frustrated.
When someone consistently changes what you say in order to argue with it and consistently ignores what you actually say, it tells you all you need to know about their argument. Don't waste your time unless he actually wants to discuss your viewpoint, instead of his artificial warped version of what you're saying.
I'm not being dense at all - this argument started when people like Major were suggesting that they throw the ball downfield against a 25 mph head wind or into a 3 deep zone vs. Ohio State. My friend, that is dense. On the other side there are people like Desert Scar saying they should go to a two back set and play smashmouth football. Of course this results in an even lower scoring output and gives all the "too conservative" people even more fuel - unless there are a lot of folks who want to see Quan Cosby and Finley play less and Luke Tiemann and Neale Tweedie play more. Against that backdrop of damned if he does or does not, and agaisnt the legions of armchair playcalling experts that populate the internet I find it hard to believe that any angry keyboard jockey's analysis is particularly well thought out insofar as it considers the possible alternatives fully. Like I said - very few programs are as productive. Cohen said Texas shoudl score twice as often as they do - unless I'm misinterpreting that, that calls for superhuman scoring ability that no team in football history has ever come up with. With a rookie QB that's a tall, tall order. Now on the other thing, find me ONE instance where somebody in this thread has brought up the 3rd down play call unprompted prior to me mentining it. Find one. Yes, I suppose you can wish that they had gone to it sooner - who knows maybe it would have worked. Maybe it would not have worked since OU had the momentum in the second quarter and McCoy tosses an interception which changes the game Tell me, if this happens, do you say "Well Greg Davis tried his best and opened it up, so no blame goes to him".......Dubious proposition. Here's another fact: #1 team in the country, freshman QB who can't throw very well making his second start, freshman QB who was hideously inaccurate on short passes and even worse on deep. Here's another fact: 17 points against Auburn by offensive genius Urban Meyer. 0 points against Georgia by Steve Spurrier. 7 points by Tommy Tuberville vs. LSU. 10 points vs. Arkansas 3 points by Mike Leach vs. TCU. Dude - IT HAPPENS - that is just this season. Even allegedly great offensive minds have games like that. Now, I know your comeback will be "but it happens more for Davis than for other coaches". Unless you're prepared to prove that other than reciting the Oklahoma game scores from up to seven years ago over and over again, say by some statistical evidence regarding other coaches, then I'd give more credence to your argument. Finally - a word about UNC losing games to FSU during the early to mid 90's. I lived in that part of the country at the time, and FSU didn't just murder UNC, they murderd the entire ACC. That was the stretch of unparalleled dominance on their part and one in which they didn't lose a game in the conference in something like 5 years. Those were among the most talented FSU squads ever. UNC didn't have anything CLOSe to matching up with FSU talent wise, particularly on offense. UNC (even pre- and post- Brown) has never really been able to do much on offense or produce great offensive players. During that era, they had Chris Keldorf and Johnathan Linton and Leon Johnson trying to go up against Cory Simon, Derrick Brooks, Peter Boulware, Sam Cowart, Samari Rolle and the FSU pantheon of future all-pros on defense; a serious mismatch. FSU produced boatloads of high round draft pick D-lineman like Derrick Alexander and Andre Wadsworth and were simply stacked in the front seven; UNC didn't have a single offensive lineman drafted from 1993-2000; Even on defense, where UNC was talented (note the vast majority of UNC draftees at that time came from defense), FSU's superior depth allowed them to do things like mismatch their third wideout (Ron Dugans) against UNC's thrid corner, which allowed them to win games on offense. It was a huge mismatch vs. FSU, and one that nobody in the ACC at the time was able to deal with. In fact, in the 8 years when FSU entered the ACC in 1991 to the time Brown left in 1997 - they lost a total of one ACC game, in 1995 against UVA on a night when a potential future HOF player in Tiki Barber ran wild and Warrick Dunn fumbled on the goal line for the potential game winning TD as time expired. You'd be hard pressed to find a more impressive run for any team in history. OU was only about the UT game since 2000 - and had their national championship hopes derailed in November with losses to lesser teams. if you come up short in those it doesn't matter what else you do either. But anyway - that's an inaccurate way to characterize things. 17th ranked, resurgent Nebraska, with a sellout crowd, in bad weather, in a national game - is NOT an easy win by any means. For you to liken it to Rice is an insult. It was also characterized as a big game by the media before and after - and the result another win (because the offense performed well enouogh in extremely adverse conditions to put them in a position to do so, with no help from the kicking game) This is just a variantof the old Soonerfans/aggies Mack Brown hating argument 101; he can't win the big game, and games against ranked opponents (like K-State a few years ago, Nebraska, Washington or LSU in bowl games) are only big games if you lose. The Holiday Bowl WIN vs. Washington shows nothing, a Holiday Bowl loss vs. Washington State two years later shows that you can't win the big game; Double standard much? It's very incongruous for supposed Texas fans to recycle the "can't win the big game" argument against Davis (and necessarily, Brown), especially after it has been vanquished this year - when discussing a big game that Texas won. But the same thing happens to EVERYBODY,. There are good games and there are bad games. That's why I keep typing "PERSPECTIVE". If Mike Leach keeps suffering offensive breakdowns every year in big games (which he does) do we conclude that he's a lousy offensive coach who is no good ? Steve Spurrier's Gamecock teams have had plenty of games where they've failed to score over two TD's. Jim Tressell's Ohio teams regularly struggle to score points; USC's offense has struggled this year. Urban Meyer can't get Chris Leak totally untracked. The same thing happens over and over to EVERYBODY. I think there are very few teams that go into Nebraska last Satruday and score huge points, in those conditions - that's my point in this thread. I've made this point over and over again - it has nothing to do with Oklahoma 2000 or anything like that. You can't throw the ball downfield into a tornado with a weak armed quarterback and expect to be successful, so they did not - and this helped them win the game. Game over.
POUTY POUT POUT I take it you're still mad about your "wind didn't matter" argument being.....blown away?
Texas hasn't been "really good" on offense versus OU, NU and OSU. They have been particularly bad in getting TDs. I don't know about you, but coming into this year WITH THE EXCEPTION of at QB, Texas had the best collective returning skill position players returning overall. Charles/Young compare with any tandem I can think of. Sweed with his size and speed is one of the more impossible downfield threats. They had 3/5ths of the 1st or 2nd best OL in the country (SC lost 3/5ths of theirs) returning and a good blocking senior TE. Texas also of the 10 top defenses from last year had the most returning starters. But what Texas also knew from day 1 VY turned pro is where they were in deficit at QB--something you recognize as well. So what do you do about? You play to your strengths, defense and rushing-oriented, smash mouth, ball control offense. In short you foremost plan to pound your opponents in the trenches where you have pretty much everyone overmatched. Basically they just had to follow the Stealers, Ravens and Bears mold for winning football. Offensively that is a lot easier do in a pro-set, I-form or variant offense (1 back with Hback) than a set with 3 WRs and/or in the shotgun—that puts a premium on QB decision making and execution. Further, Texas had the pieces. All they had to do was use two guys among folks like Finley, Tweedie, Melton, Ogbonnaya, Myers, Ullman in FB/TE/H-Back type roles as appropriate. Even Selvin at times could play sort of a fullback/extra tailback with Charles in a pro set. In short use sets that use Texas's physicality and explosive running backs, with the occasional vertical plays to big speedy Sweed, Finley, etc, off play action. I am really only talking about taking off a 3rd WR (Cosby/Jones) for an extra blocker, or sometimes 2nd and 3rd WR for an extra blocker and extra multithreat (block or run/catch) player (Finley, Young). Just a little wrinkle would have gone a long way. It wasn't like Texas didn't have the personnel. It wasn't all that different than what Texas was running and recruiting for just 18 months ago. An approach like this also reduces pressure and decision making for a fresh Q--one of two fresh (either RS or true) you knew you were going to have to start. Somebody, I assume Davis, was too in love with the production last year without being cognizant it took incredible play by VY for that kind of offense to be consistent against better defenses. Yes they didn’t see the forest from the trees, and our offense produced 7 points and 2 crucial TOs in the critical game of the season, and it almost caught us versus NU where we got cutesy instead of smashmouth in the red zone. Has other parts of the team been disappointing? Yes—secondary play and kicking game in particular. Unforseeable injuries and suspensions are part of the that however. But this (offense) was the one area that I think the overall approach/philosophy from day 1 of spring football was off. This is more troubling to me than individual offensive play calls--which I understand most OC are soundly critizied on Sundays simply because some plays didn’t work. As for Carroll/Kiffin crit, that is just crazy. They have won close games with banged up WRs and Booty playing like crap. Unlike Texas they also have a fantastic record against top 10 teams in the Carroll/Kiffin/Chow era. One reason is because when the going gets tough they rely on power football. That was how they tore up Texas's defense last year, when they reverted to base between the tackles plays with extra blockers and doing damage up the gut than opening up play action down field throws, screens, and around the corner runs. People think because SC has had Bush/Williams/Jarrett/ML/Palmer etc that they are finesse, they are not. They are fundamentally a balanced team that always tried to establish the LOS and the between the tackles runs 1st. Winning football 101 for those not blessed with a Vince Young or Troy Smith in college or a Tom Brady or Donovan McNabb in the pros (but note OSU and NE still use a bunch of power sets even with those guys).
Uhh, right. You do realize you posted the stats that demonstrated just how stupid the wind defense was, right? Like always, you changed what I said - I never said "wind didn't matter". I said it's not a valid excuse. And then you posted stats that showed Texas was conservative both with and against the wind, and that Nebraska was conservative against the wind, but aggressive with it. My argument that the wind was simply a lame excuse was proven true - unlike your theory, Texas played conservative regardless of the wind. Nebraska, on the other hand, did not. But of course, you changed my argument from "the wind excuse is stupid" to "wind doesn't matter", as you did all through this thread to try to argue with a strawman. To add to that, you added that I thought that we should be "throwing deep into the wind" and other nonsense which I never once mentioned or advocated. In fact, you did that yet again just a few posts ago. Thanks for providing a perfect example of what I was talking about of you making up garbage because of your inability to argue with what other people are actually saying.
First, they were just fine against Nebraska and Oklahoma. In case you didn't notice, Nebraska and Oklahoma rank 15th and 21th nationally in scoring defense. That's not exactly chopped liver. No, they did not score a million points against them, but they did not put up, say 10 points like Tommy Tuberville's offense did against ARKANSAS. Second, I don't feel like runing the UT red zone chart, but I doubt their redzone efficiency is that bad this year (in fact, IIRC they scored 2 red zone TD's out of 2 attempts vs. Oklahoma - the best defense in the big 12, statistically.) Again, I'm not disagreeing with what you say - but were Texas to go to this route you would have a litany of fans screaming "too conservative too conservative too conservative" and dredging up past failures to OU the first time things didn't go perfectly - just like you have going on in this thread after a win against a tough NE team, on the road, in difficult conditions, in which the offense did what it had to do to win the game. PERSPECTIVE .....I agree with everything you say here, 100%. And it proves an illustrative example of how many fans lose perspective and launch irrational criticisms the second things don't go right, no matter what history is.
