[610 Sports] Astros pitching coach Jim Hickey FIRED

"The other five coaches -- bullpen coach Mark Bailey, hitting coach Sean Berry, bench coach Cecil Cooper, first-base coach Jose Cruz Sr., and third-base coach Doug Mansolino -- all were invited back for next year." - astros.com

 

They acquired Huff. Their bullpen ERA led the majors after the all star break (or was close to the top) and was a strength in the 2nd half so an additional reliever was not the problem.

The overriding problem over the course of this season was simply the fact that guys who produced in "game" situations in the past, did not produce as well this year.

If Ensberg hits even .250 they probably win the division. If Lidge has an ERA under 4.00 they probably win the division. With the exception of Scott, not a single offensive player produced well above expectations and most were below. For the most part, not a single pitcher produced well above expectations. They could take this exact same team, replay the entire season and they'd be more than capable of winning 90-95 games.

 

How in the hell do you know? Were you privy to every phone call and meeting, or do you naively believe that just because McLane, Purpura and company decide to do something they can easily get it done?

There were enough rumblings that everyone who was sober (and didn't take leave of his senses) knew the Astros were working hard on *something*. It didn't work out. C'est la vie. Whining doesn't help, and stupid baseless accusations are, well, stupid.

 

Allrighty then. I stand corrected. I believe this will prove good for the team, at least I hope.

 

In case anybody is still wondering why Hickey was let go... this was from ESPN:

But Purpura said he was disappointed Hickey didn't get more out of the team's younger pitchers. Aces Roger Clemens, Roy Oswalt and Andy Pettitte went a combined 36-27, but rookie starters Taylor Buchholz, Matt Albers, Jason Hirsh and Chris Sampson went 11-17.


"We've got a lot of good, young pitchers that either made their debuts this year or will come through our system in the next several years," Purpura said. "Sometimes, it's helpful for somebody in my role to hear new perspectives and new ideas.


"I don't want to get complacent," Purpura said. "Unfortunately, that's at the expense of Jim."

So, the "young pitcher inconsistency" theory plays out. Tim clearly knows how these guys were developing in the minor league system that he ran for so long... and he also had a frame of reference on how development in the minors translated to success in the majors (based on all the prospects he oversaw make that transistion for years before).

Obviously, he didn't see the same sort of transition this year that he had seen in previous years (likely under Hooten), and with guys like Hirsh, Albers, and Patton expected to eventually be in this rotation within the next year/2 years, its probably wise to have a guy with tons of pitching experience helping them adjust.

Also, its funny that whenever Tim "gets off his fast ass" and is not being complacent, people will still have a problem with him.

 

Alright msn,first of all this is CC and I'm not whining.
I understand that sometimes in life thing just don't work out.Believe me.I posted before the deadline what I thought we needed and this is consistent with what I said then.I'm just speaking my piece dude.
The status of guys we were supposed to count on had changed and midway through we knew about Morgan.We knew about Lidge.We knew about Andy's situation.We knew about Backe....etc.....and instead of adding payroll chose to rely on our youngsters and the same players as before who hadn't produced.Bobrek brings up a good point about game situations.That team ERA was great,but when the game was on the line more often than not those same pitchers were not getting the job done and helped dig a hole we couldn't get out of.
And there is a history here of Uncle taking the cheaper road unless it's hometown discounts or PR upside.There IS a track record to look at here.
I have loved our magical runs,but I fear with HUN gone and Roger having 2 -3 years left at most that we're in trouble with Drayton,Timmy,and Phil at the helm.

On Garner....I love the guy and believe he's an incredible motivator and communicator.This has been a veteran team that has good clubhouse synergism.I am not so myopic though that I can't see that he's not the best when it comes to strategic situations.There have been moves late in the season or in the playoffs that have proved this out...in particular his handling of the staff.....and a tendency to change his style and try to over manage.

 

Too much was expected out of our young pitchers...too much responsibility.And THAT goes to the decisions made at the top.

 

...and Huff was not some kind of major acquisition.
Hey,I bleed Astro rainbow orange(date myself there).I'm not JUST trying to point fingers..I want people to look closer at Drayton among other things.From the signing of Drabek and Swindell... to the opening of our park when payroll was NOT raised to give us a chance.... to the signing of Andy who had experienced injury problems throughout his career... and on to the signing of Clemens.(which was a great move,but he wanted to come home and have it comfy),Uncle has proven he will not pony up unless he HAS to.We had a trio of stud pitchers that exited stage left for various reasons,but chief among them was a refusal to pay them.The list goes on.
WHY DO YOU THINK HUN LEFT????

 

I realize baseball is cyclical and you can't win all the time,but...when you have a chance to contend or win it all,you make the moves that are needed to get you over the hump.There are plenty of teams out there where you can find help and find a match that's good for both organizations.
I fear we are in for a big dropoff in a couple of years.......Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

Midway through, they addrssed the Ensberg situation by acquiring a solid performer in Huff. Unfortunately, he did not produce as well as he had in the past. Midway through, they added Clemens to their starting staff at a HUGE increase in payroll. Midway through, most of the bullpen started performing up to their capabilities and the bullpen as a whole performed well in the second half. MIdway through, they added Scott which bolstered their offense.

You can argue that Wheeler should have replaced Lidge earlier or that Scott should have been brought up earlier, but the Astros management essentially did the exact same things in 2004 and 2005 (stuck with players, stuck with home grown talent) and were very successful with that approach. My guess is that most teams that were in the Astros position would have done the same thing.

 

Clemens was never going anywhere.
..and Scott was an unknown commodity that gave us a lift.

 

Lance and Roy beg to differ....

 

I should say Luke Scott was an UNPROVEN commodity that gave us a lift.Do I think he's for real?Probably so.I want to see him the first 1/4 of the upcoming season once pitchers start to adjust,but I think we have a gem.

 

This is just s reminder of all the bonehead moves this club has made this year. The lull of the swoon after the break and the improbable last two weeks almost left me with the feeling that the ship may not be listing so badly. I am now reminded that this ship is without a competent captain at the wheel.

Firing the pitching coach for a very successful pitching staff does not seem to make any sense.

Fixing this team, fortunately, is as simple as trading for/spending money on a leadoff hitter and a 3/4 hitter. ( A Jones, C. Lee, Soriano, G. Matthews, Crawford, Tejada and on and on)

Smith, Purpura and McLane can screw this one up or not.

The pressure is on McLane now with Bonzi having fallen into the Rox laps and faith restored with the hiring of Kubiak,the 'stros have to show that the recent ineptitude of Houston pro sports franchises is not a trend but an aberration. Used by free agents for two years now and coming up dry, McLane has got to show the money and seal the deal.

 

If you're still trotting out the 97-ish "Drayton is cheap cheap, doesn't make moves" line... you should have already moved on and become a fan of the Rangers, or Yankees.

Drayton makes calculated investments... SO FREAKING WHAT. Frankly, if more teams made calculated investments, they may not go 10-12 years between playoff appearences. They may actually come up with a run that somewhat resembles the 10+ years of success the Astros have had.

Yea, you can't get all giddy every off-season when the team signs the top FA pitcher for $15 million a year. You also don't have a team that goes out and signs a Carl Pavano or AJ Burnett... making the type of moves that can CRIPPLE a non-Yankees franchise.

I'll admit that Pre-2001, Drayton may have been a little too overly-concious about the bottom line... but likely for good reason. The farm system was continuing to churn out top-shelf prospects like Berkman, Oswalt, Wade Miller, Carlos Hernandez, and he'd already invested in the club's cornerstones of Bagwell/Biggio. However, once the farm started going dry, and the superstars that he had known his entire tenure started aging fast... he definitely changed the way things are done here (for the better).

Acquiring effective FA acquisitions without breaking the bank became this team's focus... Jeff Kent, Pettite, Clemens... all while maintaining that the young players who are "Ready" get their shot (Lidge, Qualls, Burke). Keeping the home-grown players has also been more of a focus (no discounts)... getting Berkman and Oswalt locked up as the new franchise cornerstones.

There are a lot of teams that don't have the luxury of having a constantly producing farm system, along with continuing to add key veterans via FA.... continuing to WHINE about it only ruins whatever fun this team could provide for you.

This has been said every year since 2001. The truth is, the core of this team has never been in a better position (age-wise, production wise).

This team SHOULD have had a dropoff in 2003-04... when Bagwell's arm went south, Wade Miller and Carlos Hernandez's promising career's fizzled, Billy Wagner's free agency/mouth happened... credit the team for keeping things afloat so that the new cornerstones can truly carry this team for the next decade.

 

The average baseball fan is a frikken idiot. Listen to 'em on sportsradio, read 'em online, talk to 'em at bars & at MMP. They're idiots. Sad but true.

 

"Fixing" or improving a team in baseball is never that simple. Just look at the White Sox, who looked ridiculously good last year and added Jim Thome and his 40+ HRs, had a out-of-nowhere MVP-caliber season from Jermaine Dye, and missed the playoffs.

If players don't perform to expectations, managers can't do crap.

 

the more i think about it, the more i think hirsh was the key to hickey's undoing.

i remembered he had a tendency to struggle initially after being promoted; seemed it happened after his jump to aa and again after his move to aaa. i looked up his starts at RR:
first 3 starts: 5.07 ERA; 1.27 WHIP
next 20 starts: 1.76 ERA; 1.04 WHIP and he had some ridiculous 40-something consecutive scoreless innings streak. he was flat-out dominant after he settled in.

it's why i wasn't initially worried that his first few starts with the astros were, on balance, awful. when, after his 10-run meltdown against the reds, he posted 13 IP and 2 ER in his next two starts, i thought, "ok, here we go; hirsh is locked in..."

except, he wasnt. his ERA over his next 4 starts: 5.16. he was horrible in two must-wins down the stretch and never looked paticularly dominant for any prolonged period. he certainly never flashed any ace potential that i saw. he also proved to be a bit a dick. both fall in hickey's jurisdiction, fair or not.

hirsh is SUCH a key to 2007. he HAS to be, at least, #2 good. i think hickey's blah results suggested they needed to get someone in here who they felt could reach jason hirsh.

if hirsh flames out, it's going to be a loooooooooooong 2007.

 

does your keyboard have a space bar?

 

HUN is the one who helped develop that farm system and he's gone.
So are many of the players that he brought along.Those rentals to keep us in contention came at a price.Sometimes they pay off,sometimes not,but I want to see the current group at the helm reconstitute the farm to the point that it was.Obviously I totally disagree with you about the status of the organization agewise/production wise and about our future.I am convinced that Drayton will sell the Astros like an overbought stock in a couple of years and cash out leaving us with a husk in 4 -5 years.
Nick,I'm just voicing my opinions now that the year is over.
This anger you hear in my posts really comes down to my broken heart with regard to baseball in general.Our national pasttime has been reduced to something less than it was.When Bowie Kuhn was commissioner,revenue sharing or a salary cap should have been implemented.But because of the inroads by the players union and the greed of the owners they are killing the golden goose.Look at most sports...it's about the dough..a microcosm of society I guess....Sorry for the rant guys,but BASEBALL is my first love and it hurts me to see what has happened to our great game.My frustration comes out at moments like this and for that I apologize to all.