Ok I just saw that Jeter (WTF??) is the odds on favorite to win MVP in the AL. I was baffled when I saw this. He is -180 to win at Pinnacle. I don't get it at all. Ortiz is the best player even though his team isn't going to playoffs. Is the national sentiment really that heavy towards Jeter? I don't think he is even the best player on the Yankees. What are yalls opinions?
wow then i really hate the yankees and ******* media. jeter is having a great year but man you look at that whole entire team and it's certainly hard to say he is the most valuable or even the best on that team, especially when you consider jeter is such a poor defensive player. i will estimate ortiz will finish with 55 hrs, 120 runs, 140 rbis, .285 avg, .405 obp, .635 slg, and NOT win the MVP. what kind of bs is that?
Ortiz may be the best offensive player, but he is far from the best player simply because he is a DH. Morneau is deserving as well and if starting pitchers were given more consideration, Santana should get plenty of votes. When your starting staff down the stretch is Santana, Carlos Silva, Boof Bonser, Matt Garza and Scott Baker, it has been imperative that Santana comes up big. After a 1-3 start in games started by Santana, the Twins have won 25 of his last 29 starts.
i agree about santana and morneau and you also have to look at dye. but the argument that since he is a DH then he is far from the best player is completely lost on me. ryan howard and david ortiz are probably about the same level defensively and one gets the benefit of the doubt just because he is forced to play in the field? if those 2 were traded howard would be a dh and ortiz would be forced to play first. first basemen aren't out there because they are good fielders. they are put at first because they are usually weak fielders and great hitters. i know the reality of things and people view DHs as less valuable, but when you are going to hit 55 hrs and drive in 140 runs then that argument is out the window. the DH needs to go if it is going to screw someone who had such an amazing season.
and the argument that the MVP must come from a playoff team. his numbers are outrageous and he deserves to win it. i say this and i hate the red sox and could care less about ortiz.
does anyone here think jeter deserves it? i know you can make an argument for him, but i don't think it is super strong one. i am a bitter man today so i am just b****ing. i hate new york.
If the DH is clearly the deserving player, then you vote for him. If things are too close to call, I would always give the position player the vote. Also, the DH does not go through the daily rigors that the position players go through which should generally keep them healthier and fresher throughout the year. Would Oritz have the same great offensive numbers if he spent 140+ games a year at first base? We'll never know, but I assume he wouldn't.
First, I used bad phrasing when I said Oritz was "far" from the best player. Remove the word "far". Second, if I were voting, I'd probably do something like this: 1. Santana - his team will make the playoffs (and may improbably win the division) and without him, I believe the Twins would be 10 games out. 2. Ortiz - 2 things work agains him, he's a DH, his team won't make the playoffs. 3. Morneau - (he should sweep the Canadian vote) 4. Jeter - he is having a pretty good year and his team is in the playoffs. 5. Dye
I'm with the consensus and think that Papi should get it. But I think Jeter will win it with one of those 'he's earned it over the years' votes that you see every once in a while.
I also detest the thinking that a DH and a starting pitcher can't win the MVP as well as this "Player X's team has to be in the playoffs". I remember when Andre Dawson got it when he was playing on a terrible Cubs team, but that was a very rare case.
the stupid thing is people practically consider a-rod the anti-christ, and yet his numbers are better than a supposedly mvp-worthy jeter. of course he has more homers and rbi, but he's right there in runs (110 to 107 last i checked) which should be a jeter category and is actually OPSing the same (both in the .890's last i checked). while jeter's average is way higher, the on base is closer and the slugging goes to a-rod. now i know he's committed a ton of errors but most people hardly consider that anyway. the point is, jeter is not even outperforming a guy most people hate for having such a bad year and he's supposed to get the mvp for supposedly keeping this yankee team afloat all year through the injuries and such? yeah, poor jeter, he's only got $180M in talent around him. how does he manage to drag them to division title after division title? and that doesn't even mention that giambi is OPSing over 1.000 and has been huge for them. i was actually listening to some game and this topic came up and the announcer threw it to the color guy who was some former athlete (it was on espn but it didn't sound like kruk or any of the others i know) and he said after looking it over i think i'd give it to jeter. he sounded like "looking it over" was spending 5 seconds reading espn.com or something b/c it didn't sound like a nuanced argument was coming. then the next thing he said was "i mean, just the intangibles..." if i could reach through the tv and punch people in the face i would've done it then. the friggin' intangibles argument again. that just means, i love this guy but can't get the stats to agree with me so i'll use some unquantifiable factor to say how great he is. and they always do it with a-rod. it's the same we even back when he was a terrible shortstop (i think the stats say he's pretty good now) the media would have you thinking he was gold glove caliber. hows about we just stick to the facts. personally i think ortiz or johan should get it as ortiz has just had a massive year and had so many walk-off hits. if anyone has intangibles, it's the feeling ortiz generates at the end of games when you just know he'll come through for you. santana hasn't lost a home start all year and hasn't lost many road starts either. and it's not like it's because the twins score 10 runs a game either. morneau should be next as he has had a very big year and been even better over the last 4 months as the twins have made their run. dye should probably be next for his all-around triple crown stats, and then jeter can come in 5th for still having a very good year and being on a division winner, but that's as high as he realistically deserves to be. he's going to win it so we don't have to worry about it. of course, it might be an even bigger travesty if the NL MVP doesn't go to howard. while he's had the huge statistical edge on pujols for awhile because of the games pujols missed, he's actually caught him in the efficiency stats. he's winning slugging now and they are virtually tied in OPS. since he did it for more games and his team i think almost has a better record than pujols, he should get it.
Considering that it is a team sport and the ultimate goal for a team is to make the world series, it only follows that all things being close to equal, a player who helps his team make the playoffs should win out over a player who doesn't. Obviously there are exceptions to this, but team success is a part of being an MVP. If there is a player who is clearly the MVP, it shouldn't matter what his team has done, but if there is a toss-up, I'd go with the player whose team would not have made the playoffs without him.
Not only is this the way it should be, this is the way it is. ARod won the MVP with the Rangers when they were crappy by being clearly the best player, but the MVP generally comes from a playoff team, because none of the guys on teams going home clearly outshines all of the playoff guys. Ortiz plays half the game and on a team that couldn't make the playoffs earning the 7th best record in the AL. There is no way he wins the MVP when other guys are having big seasons like Morneu. Jeter is putting up strong numbers, plays one of the 2 most important defensive positions, and is the leader of the team with the second best record in baseball (and none of the Tigers are even legit candidates AFAIK). Jeter should win this running away, especially since he has been a media darling his whole career.
