Would you lie and benefit the enemy, if your life were at stake.

You say, "I'm not saying it is true," and then continue to make a very inflammatory statement. Can you back it up? How about some examples? I'm agnostic, so please feel free to include me.



Keep D&D Civil.

 

i'm about 95% Atheist (the other 5% is just my own admission that I don't know everything) and I would die trying to save someone from a mugging or a girl from being raped before I died refusing to chant some stupid words and in my eyes my death would be 100 times more noble than yours.

 

Why does someone have to hold something sacred to be moral? Being moral is completely subjective, even amoung religous people. What may be moral to a preacher may not be moral to a rabbi.

So why is it that just because I am not religous, I am not moral? I know what is right and wrong to me. That standard may not hold true for you or anyone else but I know what is right and wrong to me. And honestly, since I finally came to grips with a lot of the questions and concerns I have about the religion that I was taught growing up, I feel that I have been a much better person.

Therefore, if morality is subjective, how is anyone to know what someone else feels is right or wrong? Wouldn't that subjectivity be just as "liquid" as someone who isn't religous?

Also, as a Christian, who are you to judge? I think that Christians should worry more about the beam in their own eye instead of the moat in their brother's.

 

Actually I should change that part from...
Being Born Again is dying to yourself and living for Him. All lived for Him and all chose to die for Him.

To...
Being Born Again is dying to yourself and living for Him. All lived for Him. Period. They died because of others.

As they really didn't die for Him (as that would be martyrdom). As rhester said, they were murdered, they didn't commit suicide. But in all cases they didn't deny Him. And in the Bible there are many examples of failure, but there is only 1 place were someone denied Him - Peter. Did Jesus forgive Him? Yes. Did Peter feel great about it? No. Did Peter deny Him again later in life? No. Peter had it to do over again. If he thought he was right and he knew he'd be forgiven, why not deny Him again?

Did Paul deny Him? He could have, but he never did. As a former coat holder for the stoners of Stephen, he spent most of his believing life in jail because of his belief in Him. What good came from that? Most of the New Testament.

 

Maybe the righteous will get lucky in the situation and beamed out before the trigger gets pulled.

Beamed Up?

 

The 1st is a Good Question
When I say SACRED I mean . . immutable

I'm not saying morality is NOT sacred
just that
Rabbi has a book he can point to and basically you can get his morality there
Same with all men of various religions

Since Non Religious people do not
then
People interpret it that they make it up as they go along


Deckard - I mean *some* people

Rocket RIver

 

So you are telling me that with a gun pointed to your head etc, God would rather you have your brains blown out rather than tell a lie. I can't accept that. Who would want that and why? It is ridiculous.

 

Statement 1:
Atheists have no morals.
Statement 2:
All Christians oppress women, hate homosexuals, despise minorities and believe that 9/11 was a just punishment for societies sins.

Are either of those statements true? Obviously not. I just wanted to illustrate how far off you are on that line of crap.

EDIT: After reading your next post, it seems that maybe you were simply pointing out the way some people think, if that is the case, my bad.

 

I'm not pulling the trigger, someone else is. If God wants me alive for another reason, He will keep me alive. But if not, so be it.

Now I did say that if it were my wife's or kids' life that would be another story and I should add that if it were anyone's life. But if it's just me, so be it. My wife would understand, and I trust the Lord to explain it to my children if they didn't.

Was Peter right the first time or the second time?

 

A gunman walks into a full church and announces, "If you believe that Jesus is going to save you prepare to meet him or leave now because in 30 seconds I am going to open fire". The church quickly empties except for the minister and about 25 people. The gunman then says, "carry on with the sermon preacher, I just wanted to weed out the non-believers."

 

That's an old joke, but a good one.

OK, RR. I just wanted some clarification.




Keep D&D Civil.

 

I may be pessimistic, but I seriously doubt that there are three people on this forum who like to die for words against the country. Even for a slight chance of living, people choose compromising.

 

I wonder if most American Christians are fatalistic. I guess that's much better than deterministic Muslim extremists....

Interpreting religion is like a full time job.

 

I never understood why non-religious people believe they are smarter and more enlightened than those that consider themselves religious or why they feel the need to let everyone know how much more enlightened they think they are.

I voted that I'd like to think I would stand firm but I'm not sure. You NEVER know what you would do until you're in a certain situation.

What a lot of you don't understand is that in the scenario the one thing the gunman/terrorist/crazy christian/non-American in this situation wants is power. They want the power to make you renounce something that you believe in. I don't understand why someone would not be able to see why I wouldn't want to give someone else that power.

So many of you are quick to let violence determine how you live your life. The way you overcome violence is by confronting it and not by running from it. I'm not saying that my one death would change anything but I'd rather die standing up for something I believe in than to live knowing that when it mattered the most, I betrayed everything I stand for.

 

You wouldn't lie to buy you time to escape?

Anyway, beliefs are an illusion, so is life and death. So I guess it really doesn't mater.

 

To turn the other cheek? Power might have meaning to the criminal, but what is it to you? As a source of pride?

That's the big question. What gives your life meaning to live (or die)? I'd disagree that reaching heaven sooner is meaning to die at gunpoint. For one thing, you wouldn't have a chance to atone for your wrongs. You'd be cut off from your friends and family who find some meaning in their lives from you. There's nothing else at stake in this question other than your life and possibly your pride.

 

How about if your kid's life was in jeapardy?

I would turn traitor in half a heartbeat.

 

I know! I hate it when people allow their life experiences and thoughts to change how they feel about moral dilemmas! When will people learn that all you need to do is just listen to what someone says from a book? It's so much easier than growing as a person.

I could post something condescending like that, and reflect back your attitude. Or I could note that just because someone may not have a relegious moral basis, it is folly to think that he has not put a great deal of thought into it. After all, don't most religous people change how they view morality, at least a little bit?

 

BS. You have control whether or not he pulls the trigger. Your fate is now in your hands.

I understand dying for peace. I understand dying to protect. I don't understand dying rather than utter words you don't believe in. It it romanticising death. It would be wasting your life and would be immoral and sinful.

 

I'm wondering how this diverted to a question about denying religious beliefs. The question was would you betray your country to defend your life. Yes, I would, and I think as an American I'm actually entitled to, considering that life is an inalienable right as per the Declaration and the 14th Amendment (absent due process). Unless I'm a soldier, I guess, because they abide by military laws which I assume are not as flexible?