Good point, I can relate to this example better...I realized there was a divide to some extent by history, but I didn't realize there seems to be such a rift among the people...
Yes you're right and I didn't mean to imply that the extent of the Tokyo trials were like Nuremberg just that they were conducted similarly.
Is celebrating Christipher Columbus day wrong because it marks the begining of the genocide of Native Americans? We do that..... Should the confederate flag never be flown again? Should the graves of confederate soldiers not be a place where our president be allowed to visit? This is what bothers me. Everyone whitewashes their history. I don't think that Japan is trying to celebrate it's invasion of China and the torture it commited, it's trying to do what we did, what China does, and what everyone except maybe Germany. And that's the point I'm trying to make... That eventually, even the Germans will whitewash their history. People don't want to be reminded of their national failures...
And I'm not a fan of that... We glorify this guy so much when the fact of the matter is that he was so brutal that even the Spanish government thought he went too far in his treatment of the natives It's not something this country should be proud of, so no I'm not a fan of government displays of the flag. I think the few states that still raise it are wrong. Well if he has any common sense he probably should avoid intentionally angering a segment of the population to honor some former confederate soldiers. (i.e. exactly what Koizumi is doing) And thankfully, we don't do that. Two wrongs don't make a right... I don't support anyone whitewashing their history, but back to the original point, Koizumi is honoring a shrine when he knows it will piss off much of East Asia. You have to be realistic about these things sometimes. I see your point, but like I said I'm not proud of the things you listed above either and I'm not going to rationalize them. They're all wrong and should all be rejected. As for Germany, maybe they will but international pressure and continuous reminders about the holocaust and nazism serve as a powerful check on this. The same type of pressure simply hasn't existed for Japan.
You still don't get it. So I am trying to help. 1. About the shrine visit: Don't you realize you always think on one side? Whay should asian people are so upset about the visit? Japaness have a thousand reasons to pay the tribute to the dead. That is sort of right. How about think it another way? Why not Japaness leader comprisies a little bit by removing those war criminals from the temple and then paying their tribute? Why? Please tell me why. 2. Give me an anlogy that is maybe not very accurate: If Osama Laden is killed by us, and fifty years later the govenment of any country is visiting his grave every year to pay his tribute. Do you feel comfortable or upset? Do you protest? Do you see it as a symbolic gesture? Tell me straightforward. 3. Comparing German and Japan, you can find out the difference. To some extent, no country is wiling to refresh its dark histroy, but you have to acknowledge it and regret it with your heart. Look at what Germany prime misnister doing in Portlan in front of graves of Jews! Look at the textbooks of Japan of now regarding World War Two! Look at how many Japaness wirte to Ms. Chang (the author of Nanjing rape living in US and dying recently) to accuse her of making up the history of Nanjing rape and massacre, and even to threathen her safety. Check out all those facts before you jump to any conclusion.
He is visiting a shirne for political purposes. After all, he answers to Japanese voters, not Chinese protesters. I just shrug my shoulders at all of this. What I think doesn't matter. What anyone things doesn't matter. What I am doing here isn't about some dude visiting a shrine, or some debate about re-writing history. It's about unreality and understanding of people's minds. Real-egal, wnes, michecon....they are so curious in their connection to something that isn't real - but a part of a self-image manufactured in themselves - but it's odd to me, because it isn't real. That's why I never give my race or background - it's not real....it doesn't define who I am. But I guess for most people, it does define who they are. And when that race or background is critiqued, notice how hard they must defend it, because they are so attached to it, that they find it threatning. To the point that they get reactive and feel the need to hurl insults as a way to reinforce their own self-image. It's interesting no? Of course, by now you probably realize what I do for a living...
Leaving aside the question whether they have a right to do it or that everyone does it do you think that it is morally right for people to whitewash their history?
I don't know if it matters to be honest. Does anyone know what the impact of whitewashing history is? Does it produce a kinder gentler nation? Is that what the world wants? Is Germany any more capable of becoming a fascist state now then any other state? Is Japan more likely to become a war-mongering state more then China or the U.S.? Is there some historical "ingredient" that causes nations to become facist? None of that has been established in my eyes. Thus far, the only thing that has been established that people take offense to it for symbolic reasons. But is that enough? I don't know really. But I do know one thing....if you aren't willing to truly consider all perspectives, if you can't question your own thinking....then are you truly a free thinker or just trapped into patterns you've been taught to think?
Jews will be mad if Germen glorify Hitler; Americans will mad if Muslims have get out parties every 9/11; Blacks still blame slavery and racial discremination for their situation; native indians still request large amount of money from federal government as compensations. So what is so wrong for Chinese expressing their anger over Japanese whitewashing their crimes? NewYorker is more upset with Chiness feeling angry, like victims of other other crime in the history, than with Japanese denying probably the worst genocide in the history. That just tell you how twisted his mind is. I'd like to see NewYorker eryell "Jews have no right to complain about Iranians denying Holocaust ever happened" in public. I dare him to do it if he feels so strong that whitewashing history is no big deal.
Yes, Japan is more likely to become a war-mongering state. If you cared to read the whole thread, I explained why economic factors droved Japan to expanism then militialism, and will likely do the same in the future. But your sight is limited to the past 50 or so years in which Japan was under tight leash.
Ummm, they really don't have a military anymore...so it might be tough. Maybe we should just give nukes to Taiwan ! DD
Why are you such a hater of Japan? Why can you only see the Chinese perspective? Why are you so passionate about it? So you are saying Japan,because it has a lack of resources, if left to it's own devices will invade China again? Don't you think you're being a bit paranoid?
Again, you're attacking the messenger, not the message, which shows you're fighting a different war because you've lost the original one. Everytime you call my mind twisted, you only hurt your own position and it makes it appear as if I must be winning the debate. Think about it, you're totally on the defensive...you're acting like you're losing. I'm not upset. Clearly you are....you know, there are no Jews on here crying about Germany still, there are no Native Americans asking for their country back...the only thing that we have right now, right here on this BBS, is a bunch of Chinese crying about where a PM goes and what's in another country's textbooks and not being able to admit flaws with their own society.
I am not upset at all. I think Japan is taking a big hit on this issue, and I think they deserve it. If I hated Japan as you claimed, why would I be upset to see Japan going downhill?
Good analysis, this New Yorker guy has some peronal background that is making him think like that, possible Jap military connections.
