Top Chinese diplomat tells US to 'shut up' on arms spending

It depends what you mean by "capability". Right now the PLA does not have the kind of military power necessary to invade successfully so in that sense I would not say they have the capability and most military analysts agree. In the event Taiwan declared independence, it would definitely mean war, perhaps some air strikes and blockades. But its unlikely to mean invasion not because they wouldn't want to but because they wouldn't be able to do it successfully. I doubt the PLA generals would be stupid enough to undertake an invasion that they know they can't pull off and this is even without US intervention.

 

Very nice post, Panda. You gave an indication, in the part I bolded, that of 1.3 billion Chinese people, 100 million of them are educated and self-sufficient. Would that be a fair statement, or am I taking more from that than I should? Clearly, from your post, China has it's hands full solving a massive change in the lives of so many citizens. You are talking about changing the lives of hundreds of millions of people from what they have been doing since time out of mind, a huge problem.

We went through the same dislocation here, on a much smaller scale, but perhaps an equal percentage of the population, when we went from a rural economy (with large industrial regions, obviously, but still with a majority a rural population), to a predominantly urban one. China is doing something similar, but on a much, much larger scale. A key difference (zillions of other differences, obviously) is that we have had vast tracts of land available without dense populations throughout our history. Even at the height of Native American population, in the early decades of the country, they settled sparsely. To this day, with the US reaching 300 million (and lots of us remember when it hit 200 million), we still have vast amounts of open space, if we don't turn that space into some dead polluted zone, littered with cracked concrete and abandoned strip centers.(do you have strip centers in China? I hope not)

China faces a gigantic task, with unknown results, and certainly one would expect it to take enormous resources. I'm surprised China has the available resources to mount a serious space program, but she is. China has huge infrastructure projects going on, like the Three Gorges Dam, something I am very much against for historical and environmental reasons, but that ain't stoppin' it! She is undertaking a large increase in procurement for her armed forces, going on a spending spree getting weapons and technology from the former Soviet Union. Clearly, despite that huge challenge you mentioned, China is willing to spend large sums of money for national defense, which doesn't surprise me, but is also willing to spend large sums for "national prestige" projects, like the space program.

I welcome China's entry into manned space flight, because it will act as a spur to greater NASA funding. The 2006 NASA budget is $16.45 billion, and while that may sound like a lot, it come out of a $2 trillion dollar national budget. I hope China has the resources to handle the costs of manned space flight, because it easily takes up half the NASA budget. It would thrill me to see an astronaut (I know China uses a different word, but at the moment, it escapes me) from China shaking hands with an astronaut from the US on the surface of the Moon. It'll be great when a Chinese spacecraft lands, and a US astronaut says, "Howdy! Let me welcome you to the Moon. Glad you could come!"



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I don't think China has 1.2 billion uneducated people. The literacy rate is around 86% if I remember right, and the literacy rate among youth is 98.9% according to this link
http://globalis.gvu.unu.edu/indicator_detail.cfm?IndicatorID=41&Country=CN

I don't know how much the space program cost, but I doubt it is even anywhere close to NASA's budget. I mean things like $2000 ashtrey are patents of americans.

Even with all these spendings, the economy is charging ahead at double digit growth rate.

 

Yes, in stead of talking about arms spending and which ship is better than which battleship (I never actually read those), it is much more fruitful to talk about more important topics such as how China's fast urbanization would affect global warming; can China sustain the modern city cluster development path that is modeled after US, with it's population. In stead of nudge China on defence spending, maybe US can urge China to accelerate leveling difference between rich and poor, not only economically, but also in terms of rule of law.

Heck, let's talk about projected larger role of China in the IMF - in both share and voting power. US is now pushing that idea.

In part, I agree space program has a "national prestige" factor, but it's much more than that. It obviously can promote defense technology excellency. It has also many unforseeable benefits to the future economy as US experience has shown. Many technology from US space program, over the years, were able to trickle down for civil usage, which has played a big part in shaping up US economy today.

 

I didn't put that very well. What I really meant to say was that I took it to mean that China had a prosperous, educated (as in college, etc.) middle to upper class of 100 million. Don't have any idea if that's true, and was trying to get a handle on that. It's a large number, but a tiny percentage of the population, if those are in fact the numbers.



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The vast amount of Chinese are poorly educated IMO. The cultural revolution ruined the education for ten years in the seventies, students were busy to become red guards. A whole generation of students were wasted. China has about 70% - 80% of poluation as farmers, of which the majority would be lucky to be graduates from high schools. In the city it's better, high school graduates are eveywhere, however, the education level is one thing, and the quality of education is another. China's education system is full of holes. Students complain they learn nothing practical even in university, teachers only care about force feeding standard answers for grades, teachers with executive powers are busy selling school entrance to bad students and collect frivolous fees, and plagerizing is rampant in the acedemic circle. Students coming out of high schools know nothing of society and has no ability on critical and creative thinking, on majority they are just a bunch of nerds who doesn't even know the concept of responsibility, nor do they have much content, substance, the ability to express themselves and the basic ability required to solve practical problems. It's not about knowledge on paper, it's about the corrupt and hollow education system causing a lack of right attitude which annoys. Education makes them go backwards, and they have to be acclimated by the society for a while to get back. I don't expect them to be seasoned upon entering society, but the quality of education is really bad. I don't even want to send my own kids into shools in the future.
And some parents are already doing it. Sorry for the long rant, I have many complaints against the Chinese government who monopolizes what to teach and how to teach.

 

Wow. A very informative post, Panda. Thanks!



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One thing about the Chinese government, they are very conscientious at molding their image among the people, not only through propaganda, but also through concrete achievements. The space program, the three Gorges dam, the arms buildup and huge spending on sports all have their economic benefits, what's also important, they help to build this image of a government that's successful, strong and advanced. The government is dictatorship. Its authority is not backed up by the formal expression of people's will. It has more reliance on its image because the image directly affects its authority. Image of the government is a part of its own stability, and since China is under its reigning, a part of China's stability. America can afford Bill Clinton being exposed for telling lies and sleeps with other woman, China cannot afford Chairman Hu being exposed for doing the same thing.

BTW, a Chinese descendant invented an English term the equivlent of astronaut, taikonaut, in Chinese "taikon" means space.

 

Complaints against the government is my routine on some Chinese boards. It's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

From what I've seen of you here, you must give them hell!

Heaven knows we have our own political image making in this country, semingly non-stop. The Bush Administration has attempted to change the image of the President to fit what they see as advantageous to him and his political party, at any given point in time. Reality has little to do with their efforts.



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Recently Shanghai's education bureau shut down a private school "Meng Mu Tang" that deviates in course content from the official curriculum. They made some crappy excuses to do so, but many people, including me don't buy it. They don't want grant freedom to course content and teaching methods, because it will doom the public shools, which has become a money tree for the education officials. Thanks to the internet, we can blast this action online.

They won't stop when there's always people falling for it.

I'm running late now, nice talking with you. Later.

 

I think you are being overly harsh here. Some of the young Chinese kids I have met are quite different from their parents' generation. They aren't like nerds you have in mind.

The problem with chinese education system is the opposite of the problem with american education system. Over there, they teach too much stuff in high schools while in the US high schools are there to keep kids off streets and out of troubles. American high school graduates lack quantitative skills and that is why not enough of them choose science fields in college.

Comparing education systems of China, still a developing country, and of US, the superpower of the world, has little meaning. While we all know china has a lot to do to improve its education system, we must see that it has already done a good job. China and India started with about same literacy rate 50 years ago. Today, the literacy rate in India is 65%, comparing to 86% in China. And the GDP per capita of China is twice of Indian's.

So a more fair assesment would be, IMO, a lot or room for improvement but there has been good progress.

 

They are smart, aren't they?

I am not sure there is any government which doesn't care about its image. Going back 2 years, Bush was talking about sending astronauts to Mars. Thank god that plan is dead for now.

 

Don't U.S. schools, public and private alike, use standardized textbooks? If so, I don't understand the fuss about Shanghai Education Bureau shutting down a private school that teachs students using textbooks deviating wildly from the standard ones.

How do you expect kids pass the standard entrance exams if you teach them vastly different things from the rest of the education system?

In U.S., for instance, adding intelligent design to the high school biology curriculum has caused huge uproar. Don't you know that?

Maybe there is more to what you said. Based on what's presented, the outcry is unwarranted.

 

There's no standardized national curriculum in America. Local school boards determine what books are used in their schools and private schools are free to make book choices as well. Granted there are minimum requirements but those are bare-bones rules that don't regulate book and main curriculum choices.

Also, there aren't standardized exams for private schools in the US. The only standard exam is the SAT and that is only used for college admissions and isn't a mandatory test. The No-Child Left Behind exams also don't dictate curriculum. The rules only call for schools to meet the minimum test standards. There aren't any rules regarding how they can achieve those.

 

As far as I know, american high school kids don't learn much, at least those in public shool system. There are exceptions of course.

 

Ironically, to your knowledge, many Japanese still don't buy they are making war crimes in World War II. And many of them still believe that they are defending asian values against the intruders like U.S and western power houses back then.

German has been reflecting on its mistake very hard, while Japan is very unluctant to even acknowledge it SIXTY YEARS later. That is the reason why China and South Korea are so mad about Japan now.

 

Actually the plan is still right on the course as originally defined. Even the People's Daily Online knows that Lockheed was just given the contract for the capsule.

You really might want to consider hiring a fact checker for your posts.

 

OK, but can you imagine any U.S. schools teach (not just mention) materialist dialectics, communism, and atheism?

EDIT: actually the question wasn't meant to direct at you. I hope Panda can address it.

 

LOL ... do you really think overseas Chinese read People's Daily Online?