"The Rockets were loyal to Hakeem but he wasn't loyal to them"....HUH?

"Yea, your team will "really" be a dynasty playing in the pitiful east with a 43 year old center!!"

-You are really crazy if you think Hakeem is 43. This means when he was schooling David Robinson and Shaq in the 95 playoffs, he was 37 years old? Use your head instead of just believing every lame rumor you read about. 37 year olds do not dominate the NBA like Hakeem did in 95.

"Prove it."

-The proof will come tomorrow when the Rockets announce the signing of Shandon Anderson to a multiyear deal worth between $4 MIL and $5 MIL. This will mean they offered more money for a below average Guard with a horrible outside shot than they did for Hakeem. If you truly value Hakeem, you make him an offer higher than you do a stiff like Shandon Anderson. That's pretty much common sense.

"Passing judgement on "fans" is EASY especially when your "appreciation" comes in the form of watching games from 150 miles away"

-Thats lame. There's no excuse to justify that the Rockets, a good 45 win team, finished last in the NBA in attendance, being one of the largest cities in America. Absolutely no excuse for that embarassing fact.

 

What the hell? When did we try to trade him in 99? It was the RAPTORS who offered us Willis, Christie, and the #5 and #12 picks of the 1999 draft for Hakeem. That trade was EXTREMELY in our favor. We're talking a solid player in Doug Christie and 2 picks in a VERY stong draft (we're talkin Shawn Marion, Wally Szczerbiak, Andre Miller, Jason Terry, Richard Hamilton, Jonathan Bender all available at 5...Corey Maggette, Ron Artest, James Posey, William Avery, Vonteego Cummings, Kenny Thomas, Andrei Kirilenko, Jumaine Jones all avialable at 12). A completely onesided trade. However, the Rockets didn't even continue negotiations because the were so loyal to Hakeem. I'd say 17 million last season was pretty damn loyal too.

 

Considering Hakeem and Shandon share an agent, do you really think Fegan would let Shandon be renounced for Hakeem? Especially considering there ages, where Shandon can get 30-40 mill over the next several years, where as Hakeem was signed to 17 mill. Fegan's job is to get the most money for his clients (and therefore himself). What's Shandon going to be able to get elsewhere? Bruce Bowen is a similar player, and signed for 700K. Shandon is an early bird free agent, so he counted for 2.86 million unsigned.

When Hakeem made his demands, the Rockets were down to Mo Taylor or Hakeem. This team's future isn't now. and if Hakeem is on a multi-year deal, we don't have much cap next year or this. So that breaks down as: Two years from now, do we want to be looking for a center, and a PF, or just a center? Taylor is a PF who actually WANTS to play here. Isn't it a novel concept to resign PFs who want to play in your city?

Your Raptor "dynasty" has probably a 2 year window at best.

Since Mo played 2 games against the Raptors, and the Rockets had all of 1 game on national TV, there are good odds didn't watch much of Mo Taylor, or Hakeem Olajuwon this past year. In one of those games, where Mo played center, he just happened to go 24-8, while the big tough Antonio Davis went 8-9 on 3-10 shooting. So why are you calling him soft again?

 

Hey, listen up Ramirez! If you don't enjoy hearing about Hakeem "the Dream" Olajuwon- the greatest player in Houston Rockets history- then find another message board, or another team. I am getting pretty sick and tired of you coming into every Hakeem thread and saying that you're "tired of talking about Hakeem". If you don't like it, too bad. This is going to be the subject of many conversations for a long time. GET OVER IT!


And if you keep it up, then go here for your message board fix.

 

ZRB, did you not read one of my other posts? It said for you to get some dadgum THERAPY!!! Please, for the HUMANITY of it, CONSIDER this option!!!!

 

Hey Manny,
Here's a suggestion...I'm not sure if you're totally familiar with the new toys on this bbs, but there's a new function called the "ignore list". All you have to do is go to "user control panel", then "Edit Ignore List", then just add monikers of people you don't really care to read anymore. It's a beautiful function, probably one of the greatest new functions on this bbs. If you add someone to it, you no longer see their posts, and you don't even see the useless threads they start. My suggestion is if you're tired of certain posters constantly going on and on and on about Hakeem and how horrible the Rockets franchise is, then you should try to use the ignore function.

I already have 3 on my list, it's wonderful...

 

Oh, you just proved to me that we will offer a YOUNG, talented 2/3 swing man a bit more money than a 40 year old center with MAYBE two years of playing in him, or should I say one year's worth of games over two years.

That still doesn't prove that management did not want him back. That proves that management is using smart business practices.

What would you have come here and said if we paid him 3 yr. 30 mil. like he asked for? Then you'd say we were suckers and overpaid for him (I am sure out of bitterness that Toronto would not have landed him).

 

I would submit to you the question of HOW can a city appreciate a sports star?

We could attend games. It's been rehashed ad nauseum in this thread about our poor attendance. But fwiw, Dream wasn't at many games anyhow. And people don't necessarily sit around and say "I need to show Dream I appreciate him . . . I'll go to the game and see him come in for 2 minutes of garbage time while he's trying to get over his injury". But okay, we could've had more attendance, but IMO, that's not really a good barometer of fan appreciation.

Then, what else could we do from that point onward? Go to Dream's house and have a candlelight vigil? Buy more Hakeem Olajuwon jerseys? Build him a statue in case he stays? Maybe we could've bid on his car from ebay . . . maybe we could've each given him money . . . perhaps we could've taken billboards out that said "We love you Dream - Houston" . . . we could've given him keys to the city, made him mayor, or renamed Houston, Olajuwonville or Hakeem City.

There's so little that a city can do to "appreciate" a sports star. The star must take it on faith that the city loves him, and why would Houston not?

So we are left with merely the Rockets organization "appreciating" and "respecting" Hakeem. And when it comes down to it, we <i>always</i> end up talking about money. We talk about how Shandon will be paid, and MoT will get paid and Moochie will get paid, and we could've renounced them and given the money to dream. And then, we're not talking about appreciation, but further filling one man's bank account. Appreciation is not to be given by money. Dream is the most appreciated man in the Rockets player in history. CD and Rudy and Les just love him -- he brought two rings to them, and has always been "the man" of the organization.

So, we are left with only money, which is not appreciation. Thus, we should say "we didn't pay Hakeem as much as we should have", rather than "we didn't appreciate Hakeem". It's all a smokescreen for getting more and more money.

Maybe we should've done a bakesale with proceeds going to Hakeem.

THAT would show him appreciation, sure. Or at least more money.

 

<B>A way to turn around the question that actually works is this -- "Houston was lucky to have Hakeem...was Hakeem lucky to have Houston?" </B>

Hell yeah, Hakeem was lucky to have Houston. Put him in LA, NY, Boston and the media would have ridiculed him early in his career for his temper tantrums and trade requests. He would have been harrassed to hell when those "questionable" injuries came up around the time he was unhappy. Houston insulated him from all of that with a very friendly media and very forgiving and "chilled" fan base. Most likely, he would never have developed his "saint" reputation in most "bigtime basketball cities" (who has?), so yes, Hakeem was lucky to have Houston in many ways.

Based on your theory, name a city that DID appreciate their superstar basketball player.

 

Well, I'm on your side here, but I can think of Michael Jordan, Isiah Thomas, and Magic Johnson offhand.

I think Vengeance has the best post in all of this mess. What exactly could we have done to Hakeem. He was greatly supported throughout his 20 years in the city, from Phi Slamma Jamma to the Rockets. The Rockets had good attendance until last year (even though I'm pretty sure they may have had the lowest attendance, they didn't have the lowest average, which is more indicitve of fan support), and like Vengeance said, why would we go last year, or the year before that...Hakeem wise. The guy played like crap or was injured the majority of the time. Only the end of last year did we see a non-embarassing Dream. I think it's pretty obvious that the city of Houston thinks highly of Dream. Why else did Rudy T pull the plug on the trade two years ago? He knew that the public backlash would be horrendous. That sounds like a city that appreciates a player. The city also took his side in the fake injury situation. In this era of most sports fans hating players, how many times would that happen? Hardly ever.

I don't think you can judge Houston's respect for Dream on attendance or their reaction to his clearly wanting to leave. He was supported attendance wise for the vast majority of his career in Houston. Also, most people like myself, are really more sad than pissed to see Dream in another uniform, however, at this moment, it's just manifesting itself in anger. We're basically not thinking clearly. However, it's pretty obvious to me that Dream has been supported here in Houston and it'll be clear to you when the Raptors come to town and the Laptop is sold out and he gets a standing ovation when introduced.

 

<B>Well, I'm on your side here, but I can think of Michael Jordan, Isiah Thomas, and Magic Johnson offhand.
</B>

What did the fans do in those cities that they didn't do in Houston?

 

Damn, I thought you two always agree with each other

 

<B>Damn, I thought you two always agree with each other</B>

Only in politics when we are arguing with you psycho-conservatives

 

Hakeem was not injured most of last season. He played in 58 games.

 

While I certainly wouldn't agree with the statement quoted in the subject line, the notion that the Rockets and the city never did anything special for Hakeem just doesn't seem rational. You're simply igoring the statements and the actions of the man himself.

The most obvious question that comes to mind is, if the money and the situation in Houston were so ordinary, don't you think he would have found a way to jump ship a lot sooner?

It is not the job of the fans to make sure a player feels "appreciated". The people that show up, whether it's five thousand or twenty thousand on any given night, are the reason he is a millionaire, end of story. In fact, the expression of appreciation should flow in the opposite direction - from the player to the fan - as often as possible. Even if you disagree with that simple assumption, has Hakeem himself ever framed his dissappointment in the context of fan support? His stated differences have always been based on his role in the offense. It's a fundamental difference in offensive philosphy between the coaching staff and the player about how the current personnel should be used in order to win the greatest number of games. This doesn't suggest a lack of respect or appreciation by either party - just a difference of opinion.

Also, the idea that Rockets management expressed their lack of appreciation for Hakeem over the years by surrounding him with inferior talent, has absolutely no basis in reality. Hakeem was not the only ****ing player on the court for the championship teams. As for the current personnel, it is precisely because he was eclipsed by superior talent around him that the coaching staff turned their attention away from him and so deeply hurt his feelings.

 

We would have and maybe still will build a statue of Hakeem outside the new Arena...

How about appreciating a good front office that most likely will support you in anything you do and then telling them that IT IS your LAST year, constituting the HUGE signing of Cato which ends up being the reason you feel you're not being appreciated...Hakeem was somewhat of a whiny baby in this instance and even though I love the man, ATTENDED the games, and supported the team, I apparently didn't worship the sungod that he is.

Freak, good seeing you post though...

 

Thanks for the tip. I found something interesting and maybe we should say this when we encounter individuals like ZRB:

Next time you are on a message board and you see a post by somebody whom you think is a troll, and you feel you must reply, simply write a follow-up message entitled "Troll Alert" and type only this:

The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to reminding others not to respond to trolls.

By posting such a message, you let the troll know that you know what he is, and that you are not going to get dragged into his twisted little hobby.

However, I am going to use that function because let's face it, ZRB is very GOOD at what he does!!

 

<B>You're assuming those temper tantrums and trade requests would have still happened in those cities? He most likely would've been paid more, and surrounded with better talent. </B>

And you're assuming he still would have won championships and such, by saying Houston didn't do anything special for him.

<B>What's my theory? I'm merely asking someone to tell me how Hakeem was so appreciated. I'm looking for something that says he was appreciated any more than others were.
</B>

And people have given you plenty of reasons, all of which you've dismissed as things that any city would have done. So I'd like to know an example of a city doing something for an athlete that you wouldn't dismiss as "expected". If there isn't anything, then there's no point trying to answer your question.

<B>Just a guess here, but I think they showed up to the games. And I don't think their organizations tried to trade them.
</B>

Those teams were also good. Those athletes were winning championships near the end of their careers -- they weren't on lottery-teams. Houston sold-out every game from 1995-99. Attendance is very simple, superstar or not: win = high attendence; lose = low attendence. Cinci doesn't sell out because of KGJ. Texas doesn't sell out because of A-Rod. No single athlete (outside of initial novelty purposes) will bring fans to watch a team: winning will.

So your fan attendence attack trulys fit your "every other city would have done it" dismissals.