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Religious (in)Tolerance in Malaysia

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Pipe, Aug 25, 2006.

  1. Pipe

    Pipe Member

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    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB115645160096844802.html

    *********************


    In Malaysia, a Test
    For Religious Freedom

    Court Ruling on Woman's Bid to Shed Muslim
    Label Will Help Define Nation's Character
    By CRIS PRYSTAY
    August 25, 2006; Page A6

    In 1998, Azlina binti Jailani changed her name to Lina Joy and was baptized a Catholic in a church in Kuala Lumpur. Ms. Joy now wants the government to stop classifying her as a Muslim.

    But it isn't that simple: While Muslim-majority Malaysia is considered a largely moderate, modern society, renouncing one's Muslim faith still is considered both sinful and illegal by Islamic authorities -- who have gained increasing sway of late. Ms. Joy's apostasy case, now before Malaysia's highest court of appeal, has inflamed public debate, divided the legal community -- a Muslim lawyer supporting Ms. Joy has received death threats -- and threatens to set off political tremors in this Southeast Asian nation of 25 million people.

    The landmark legal ruling, expected within a month, will help define Malaysia's character as a nation.

    "We are at a crossroad, whether we go down the line of secular constitutionalism or whether that constitution will now be read subject to religious requirements," says Benjamin Dawson, one of Ms. Joy's lawyers.

    Malaysia has been governed for more than a half century by a tradition of civil law passed on by former British colonial rulers. A separate shariah, or Islamic, legal system has co-existed with civil law specifically to govern the religious lives of Muslim citizens, who are mostly ethnic Malays. About 40% of the population is ethnic Chinese, Indians and other minorities of other faiths.

    But conservative Islam's rise as a political force in the 1980s and 1990s has propelled pro-Western Malaysia -- and its legal system -- on a steady swing to the religious right. The government has ceded some powers once held by the civil-justice system to the shariah courts.

    While the Quran states there should be "no compunction" in religion, Islamic authorities world-wide consider apostasy both a sin and a crime. In Malaysia, Islamic courts can sentence apostates to "rehabilitation" in prison-like re-education centers that sometimes use caning as part of their program.


    Muslim demonstrators protest a recent meeting held by civil-rights activists who want Malaysian courts to uphold a constitutional clause that guarantees freedom of religion.
    Although Malaysia's constitution guarantees freedom of religion, civil courts now routinely refer any cases involving Islamic matters for adjudication in shariah courts. And the shariah courts almost never grant Muslims the right to leave the religion.

    Political maneuvering has helped accelerate the shift to the religious right. Since independence in 1957, the country has been ruled by coalition governments led by the Muslim-backed United Malays National Organization. When Parti Islam -- which wants a full-fledged "Islamic state" governed by shariah law -- won control of Kelantan state in 1990 and then a few seats in the national parliament, UMNO politicians panicked. They began what political analysts describe as an attempt to "out-Islam" the opposition by promoting their Muslim credentials and giving more leeway to Islamic activists.

    Islam's growing influence in daily life and politics has raised tensions among Malaysia's ethnic Chinese and Indian populations. Last year, anger flared after Islamic authorities claimed an ethnic Indian named S. Moorthy, the first Malaysian to climb Mount Everest and a national hero, had converted to Islam before his death and took his body from the morgue for a Muslim burial. Mr. Moorthy's family members said he was a practicing Hindu until the day he died. A shariah court ruled in favor of the authorities; Mr. Moorthy's wife wasn't even allowed to testify because she isn't a Muslim.

    Ms. Joy, 42 years old, began dating a Catholic man more than a decade ago, eventually deciding to become a Catholic herself. She first moved to legally change her religion in civil court eight years ago. A series of lower courts declined to hear the case, telling her she needs permission of the shariah court to renounce Islam.

    Ms. Joy's case has become a lightning rod for the Islamization issue in Malaysia, pitting civil-rights and moderate Islamic groups fed up with the steady creep of conservatism against right-wing Muslim groups that want the Quran to reign supreme.

    Worried that constitutional rights are taking a backseat to religion, a group of 13 nongovernmental organizations formed a lobby group called "Article 11," named after the provision of the constitution that guarantees religious freedom. They have fired off letters to Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi and held public forums.

    The response has been fierce at times. Last month, Muslim demonstrators protested outside an Article 11 event in the southern city of Johor Bahru; in May, protesters broke up a similar forum in Penang. "We have lost the ability to hold a dialogue," says Article 11 co-founder Malik Imtiaz Sarwar, a lawyer and president of the National Human Rights Society. "If we cannot speak on the constitution, where are we as a nation?"

    The Bar Council has asked Mr. Malik, a Muslim, to appear on its behalf at Ms. Joy's appeal to support her constitutional claim. That prompted a group of 100 Muslim lawyers, who say the bar doesn't represent their views, to form a group to offer contrary evidence. In addition, a coalition of Muslim organizations has formed the Organization of Defenders of Islam to oppose Ms. Joy. "We strongly believe that Article 11 cannot simply be understood as giving unlimited freedom to change one's religion," says Yusri Mohammad, president of the Muslim Youth Movement and co-founder of Defenders.

    The government hasn't commented on the case itself -- but it has called a halt to public debate on religious matters. Mr. Abdullah, meanwhile, banned Article 11 from future forums, which he says have stirred up too much tension.

    Last week, anonymously distributed leaflets and emails containing death threats against Mr. Malik began circulating in Kuala Lumpur. One email shows a picture of Mr. Malik beneath the words "Wanted Dead." The email read, in part: "Distribute to our friends so they know who the traitor is."

    In the meantime, Ms. Joy's life has been on hold. If she were to marry her Catholic partner, the union would be considered invalid by the authorities, since Muslims can't marry outside the faith in Malaysia. If she were to live with him anyway, she would break Islamic rules on unlawful cohabitation. Ms. Joy's family has cut ties with her, her lawyers say, and she is afraid to go out in public.

    In her final appeal, Ms. Joy's lawyers argue that the case isn't about apostasy at all, and that Ms. Joy shouldn't need anyone's permission to renounce Islam because religious freedom is guaranteed by Malaysia's constitution. Instead, they ask the court to compel the government, which requires all Malaysians to state their religion on their national identity card, to simply change Ms. Joy's designation to Christian from Muslim.

    The ruling could change the lives of other Malaysians who want to leave Islam. "If the judge can grant this to Lina, he can give it to me," says Nellie, a 30-year-old Christian convert who declined to give her Muslim surname from fear of religious authorities -- and her own family. Her youngest brother told her on a recent visit home that he would kill her if she didn't return to Islam.

    Nellie began reading the Bible in her school library and was baptized when she was 17. Her mother threatened to disown her. Every week, Nellie attends mass with her Catholic boyfriend. The couple sits quietly at the back and leaves early. They change churches frequently. She doesn't tell people at her workplace anything about her personal life. If she is caught by Islamic religious police, she could be charged. Like Ms. Joy, the couple wants to marry and have a family.

    She has asked a lawyer to help her change her name and her religion, but he is waiting until the ruling on Ms. Joy's case is announced. Meanwhile, Nellie says she plans to pray. "It's my right to decide on my religion," she says. "It should be up to me and God."
     
  2. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    Saudi Arabia has declared Indonesia and Malaysia their next major projects -- along with the east African horn.
     
  3. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    I don't think it will work in Malaysia, the long established Straits Chinese minority is too financially powerful (and Malays are too laid back); If they start trying to radicalize the area, the Chinese will simply leave and the whole country will be economically up sh-t creek (and basically turn into Indonesia) and the decades of progress will be lost. At least I hope they hold out; Malaysia is a great place to be, and Saudi style radicalims is, to put it nicely, an abject failure in every sense unless you've got the price of oil to underwrite it. It may gain traction in some of the poorer parts of the country but I don't think the Malays are going to kill the golden goose.
     
  4. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    I partly agree with Sam's analysis but I think Malaysia is really at a crossroads and there is the possibility it could become more radicalized. Malays in general have been fairly laid back about their Islam but there have been periods of religious and sectarian violence in the Malay states. One problem I think is former PM Mahathir's attempt to strongly push Islam to both unify Malaysia but also IMO for his own political gain by making him a major figure in the Islamic World. He often talked about creating a modern Islam that would both embrace modernity and advancement while still retaining the principles and ideals of Islam. If you go to Kuala Lumpar the art and architecture certainly reflects that. The problem is that there are somethings like the Sharia courts and Bhumiputra (special benefit set asides for ethnic Malay Muslims) that are just incompatible with creating a modern progressive society. Malaysia has so far successfully maintained its identity as an Islamic republic while also becoming an Asian tiger but soon it will have to decide which direction they are going to go. If they are going to cling to some of the most regressive views of Islam its doubtful that they can survive as the advancing country they are. If they are willing to become more progressive they could not only remain an Asian tiger but also become a model for other Islamic states who want to embrace modernity but still remain Islamic.
     
  5. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    WOW! This is very explosive. I don't know if the Chinese will simply leave Malaysia, but it would be interesting to see how they react if the court rules against her.

    One thing I learned in Malaysia is the Chinese there feel very strongly about their distinct identity. The childern are taught to speak and write Chinese very early in their lives. On the other hand in Thailand, the vast majority of the 3rd generation Chinese don't even speak Chinese, they only speak Thai plus a little English. My friend in Bangkok wouldn't even allow me to refer to her as Chinese. She was 100% Thai, pure and simple and drilled that into my head until I finally got it. It was really amusing watching the dynamics on her job because her boss was from Taiwan and, of course, knew no Thai at all. They only way they could communicate was in broken English and each spoke English with very very different accents. The world, especially Asia, is an amazing place.
     
  6. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    ^ There's been a long history of oppression towards the Straits Chinese in the Malay States and Indonesia. Malaysia kicked Singapore out of the Malaysia because the majority Chinese population there wouldn't agree to things like the Bhumiputra laws that discriminated against Chinese. The current situation isn't something new.
     
  7. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    I realize the tension in Malaysia isn't new. My host there clearly explained things to me. I was just pointing out the contrast between (ethnic) Chinese in Malaysia and Thailand.

    Here's another one. The Tamils in Sri Lanka and the "Indians" in Singapore. Many people instinctively think of the Tigers when the word Tamil is mentioned. I used to do that. But what a surprise to find out that the "Indians" (as they are called) in Singapore are none other than Tamils, who aren't violent at all, and from what I gathered were generally very happy with their existence in Singapore.

    Stuff like this is part of why Asia is my favorite place to travel. The rich histories, cultures and interactions of these cultures is so complicated and fascinating to learn about. Even moreso than the Arab/Persian/Turkish/Kurd + Sunni/Shia stuff that gets discussed here so often. Chinese history and culture in particular interests me. Observing Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore while noting the business leadership in Thailand, Malaysia and other Asian countries should clearly show everyone on the planet the destiny of mainland China.
     
  8. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    Much of this has to do with different government policy. In Sri Lanka, there is an implicit segregation between the Sinhalese and the Tamils. And a perpetual war has basically gotten out of control because of percieved inequalities and injustices. Either way, its become very similar to what we see between Israel and Palestine in terms of one side resorting to brute terror and the other side using military strength. It's just plain ugly there.

    In Singapore on the other hand, the government has done the opposite. Besides promoting economic integration of all racial groups, it actually has a mandatory affirmative action program for government housing. Every racial group has to live next to a different racial group in government housing. Also, there are plenty of affirmative action programs in terms of the economy and education. You still see the ethnic self-imposed segregation, but its still nothing like Sri Lanka and a hell of a lot better.

    On a side note, Malaysia has a large Tamil population as well on the island of Penang which I believe is actually majority Chinese with a large Tamil minority. If you ever want good food, go there because the street side food stands are incredible and the vast array of different types of food from different cultures is unbelievable.
     
  9. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    I remember reading about the raids they held in Malaysian night clubs arresting solely Muslim members who were in violation with Sharia law while leaving everyone else to their business. It's an uneasy compromise having a dual justice system. I can imagine a moderate woman not wanting to suffer stiff penalties because of an official affiliation.

    I wish America would deal with the roots of this extremism instead of meddling in unstable wars and proxy wars that shoots completely past our stated goals.
     
  10. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    The thing to keep in mind about Tamils is that not all of them come from Sri Lanka so while we mainly hear about Tamils in regard to Sri Lanka the Tamil homeland is in Southern India and most Tamils in SE Asia are descended from there. Geeimsobored is right about Singapore and the Singaporean goverment has a policy of preventing the developments of ethnic enclaves through a policy that all government housing, 87% of the housing, has to reflect the ethnic makeup of the whole country. I would say that the lack of ethnic tensions has more to do with Singapore's successful economic policy and deveopment than it has with preventing ethnic enclaves. I've heard from many Malays and Indians in Singapore that there are times that they don't appreciate not so subtle push of Chinese culture and language in Singapore but they will still support the government because it has delivered on its promises to create a better way of life. One way many Malays have been quietly reasserting their ethnic identity is many are buying second homes in Malaysia and Indonesia where they feel they can live a life more in tune with their heritage.

    I have heard that there has been some discrimination in Sri Lanka towards Tamils but I know a few Sri Lankan Tamils who have said its not that bad and the Tamil Tigers are more interested in creating a separate Tamil country on the Jaffna peninsula than fighting for Tamil rights.
     
  11. fba34

    fba34 Member

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    the article is pretty fair except for the moorthy case. he was in the army, and he and his brother embraced islam while serving with his army buddies, who are mostly malays. wether or not he told his wife, thats debateable. but this is the first case ever, there hasnt been any other case where dead people are made to be given an islamic burial. we dont just start claiming dead bodies in the morgue and performing islamic burial ceremonies to them.
    the Prime Minister's position on this matter at the moment seem to be for everyone to calm down and just wait for the court's ruling. he's called off all of the article 11 dialogue and all of the demonstrations against the article 11 dialogue. as for me and most of my generation, we are all in favor of lina joy taking in whatever religion she wants. those who oppose her are among those who feel like
    1. muslims are losing malaysia
    2. islams' enemies are winning
    3. the christians have taken over
    4. malaysia is sinking deeper into sin and they have to uphold her
    basically the same 'everyone is against us and we have to defend ourselves for everyone's betterment' mentality that i believe is prevalent in most countries in the world.

    about the chinese malaysians leaving malaysia, never going to happen. theyre malaysian citizens, theyve been rooted in this country for so many generations, they have say in most matters in more ways than one. theyre not just tourists looking for temporary shelter.

    the muslim club members being arrested thing, yeah, thats a bit*h. there's probably just as many people who are against punishing people based on their religion that they were born into (like so many malays) as there are of those who DONT care about the issue. its just a few of those religious uptights who take it upon themselves as their sacred duty to right other people's wrongs, using their definition of whats right and wrong. the problem is that in islam, or maybe more accurately in strict malaysian muslims, is that they believe that they are so right, and everybody else is so wrong, that they should help these wrong people even if they dont want any help. they feel that if they just stand there and not 'help' these people, they themselves are sinning against god. and of course these enforecement officers arent exactly the most highly cultured people, so you get reports of those apprehended being sexually harrased through comments and deragatory remarks.

    on another note, there's some trouble brewing between the UMNO (malay party) youth and the MCA (chinese party) youth, basically the younger politicians of the ruling govt. the PM's son in law basically said that the malay's split is taken advantage off by the chinese. he's a bit of a stupid rah-rah kind of guy. some time ago, he was the leader in a demonstration during condoleeza rice's visit, where they had the 'always effective in middle east' flag burning, a first for malaysia i believe. and he basically forced his way into her meeting to hand her a referendum among other things, stating that she was not welcome in the country. this kind of action no doubt impresses the low IQ level crowd into thinking he's dedicated in his fight to stand up for muslims or malays. the rest of us are writing in to newspapers complaining about the poor air quality that his flag burnings would result in.
     
  12. fba34

    fba34 Member

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    oppression is a ridiculously unfair word to use. see if you can walk up to any chinese person in malaysia and ask wether they're oppressed.
    and malaysia didnt 'kick' anyone out of their country. the separation of singapore from malaysia made the most sense for everyone in the dispute. why would a country kick out its most strategic international port? because they're so mad at a part of their own country that they would give it away for free? please. its like saying china should kick out hongkong cos they dont agree with them all the time. did india kick out afghanistan? how about kashmir, india should kick out kashmir? and imagine kashmir being a natural port for the south east asia trade route.
    the separation was to avoid a tense situation, it put malaysia at a loss of its shipping port rather than singapore getting 'kicked'.
     
  13. mleahy999

    mleahy999 Member

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    Why does Lina Joy or someone in her situation need to change her religion legally through the court system? Is there some database that keeps track of these things or is she afraid of someone snitching on her?

    And how insecure are some of these people that they would threaten someone's life because they no longer share the same faith. This adds to the pock of Islam's image.
     
  14. fba34

    fba34 Member

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    great question. yes, its all in a database. and employment records, personal ID, passports.

    and yes, they're insecure petty little ****s that think what they do will get them heavenly rewards when they croak. theyre the sort that'll excuse other people's personal choice for upholding the 'dignity' of their religion.
     
  15. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    fba34, I'm presuming you're a Muslim Malay so perhaps me being an ethnic Chinese who has spent most of my time in SE Asia in Singapore has a different perspective.

    In regard to the oppression of ethnic Chinese in the Malay states (I say that instead of Malaysia to encompass the history prior to Merdakka) is that there have been several periods of violence towards the Chinese and Indians in Malay states. Also I can tell you first hand from talking to ethnic Chinese from Malaysia that they there are many government projects that they cannot work on because they are Chinese and not Bhumiputra. Further the Bhumiputra laws do affect things like land ownership.

    I will agree that the history between Singapore and Malaysia is rather tangled and "kicked out" was probably too strong a term but it is a fact that the Malaysian governmend didn't appreciate the nascent PAP party and Lee Kuan Yew and saw them as trouble makers. Singapore was only included in the first Malay Federation by the urging of the British but when Malaysia came about it was clear from the Malay standpoint that PAP run Singapore wasn't welcome. In regard to Malaysia losing a valuable port in 1965 that wasn't quite so obvious as Singapore was in very bad shape economically and it seemed very doubtful that such a small country with no natural resources could succeed while the prospects for Malaysia as whole seemed much better since there were other great ports like Penang and a lot of natural resources.

    I don't doubt your knowledge of the subject matter you might want to consider that in areas regarding Malay and ethnic Chinese tensions an ethnic Chinese Malaysian might feel more comfortable expressing grievances to a fellow ethnic Chinese even one who isn't Malaysian.
     
  16. swhwong

    swhwong Member

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    As a chinese Malaysian, one has to face discrimination from the moment one trying to get into the local universities. The national universities admission system have a quota system based on race. Every year, straight-As non-bumi students would not usually get into their universities or major of choice. On the other hand, those "bumiputera" student would easily get into local universities with an Ok result.

    On the business front, non-bumi could only dream about government grants, loan or government projects. So a lot of chinese/indian malaysian has learn to compete on unfair advantage and make a living out of it. The only one that would dissappear in the globalization process are those that are always been protected as soon as they are born.

    When they speak about their fight for independence, did they forgot that the chinese/indian or other ethnic malaysian also helped built the country to become what it is today? Malaysia has been independece for almost 49 years and the relation between races, religion are still very primitive and lately seems like going backwards. And when speak about people stealing their land, who is the one who sold the land in the first place? Instaed of trying to raise one's competition level to compete with others, some people would try to forbid competition or trying to pull down competition level or change the rule in order to win. If that's the direction the country is heading, I do not see much hope in the country future. It would become more like Indonesia than Singapore for sure.

    And if one think chinese would not leave the country, I would said those who can afford and are expert in certain areas would migrate, either to Australia, New Zealand, Canada, USA. Or just go become Singapore citizen which is a lot easier than trying to become a citizen of a country that do not value their expertise.

    The Malaysian government are talking about getting forgein IT workers because of the shortage in knowledge workers. One thing that I think the government doesn't realize is that there are many Malaysian IT workers around the globe but not in Malaysia. If a country cannot tolerate one of it's own people, how do you expect it to tolerate any foreigner on its soil?
     
  17. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    I'm surprised (pleasantly) that we have so many Malaysian posters on CF.net, what a crazy 'place'.
     
  18. AroundTheWorld

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    It's all the West's and Israel's fault. They hegemonize everything and this is why there is a problem. :rolleyes:
     
  19. AroundTheWorld

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    thacabbage, is that based on "the West" and Israel "hegemonizing" the poor Muslims?

    thacabbage, is this freedom of religion?

    WTF.

    thacabbage: please comment

    thacabbage: Mr. Malik: traitor or hero?

    thacabbage: Please explain.

    thacabbage: To you, this means "Islam is strong as ever"?
     
  20. Mr. Brightside

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    Malaysia is a great place. Just don't be caught carrying or eating a durian. :D
     

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