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Hezbollah Better at Cleanup than Bush's FEMA.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Aug 27, 2006.

  1. glynch

    glynch Member

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    A day or two after Israel pulled out, Hezbollah had the cleanup rolling and was paying out $12,000 in US cash to folks to rebuild their houses.

    A whole year later Bush's Federal government has done a piss poor job. I have been to New Orleans this summer and there is still huge areas where trash is all over. Hell in Houston they work round the clock or at least round the clock on weekends to rebuild the freeways. You can't blame the cash broke New Orleans goverment for the lack of progress in rebuilding. Only the Feds have the cash and they are falling down on the job,

    Is it possible that we have reached the limit of government run by government haters who constantly belittle government's ability to help American solve its problems?
     
  2. canoner2002

    canoner2002 Contributing Member

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    There is a reason that Hezbollah has support among Lebenonese. Same goes to Hamas among Palastinians. Disregard whatever they do to Isrealies, they seem to take care of their people well. That is something Bush administraion has little interest in.
     
  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Can't win the hearts and minds with bullets......cold hard cash is the best way......

    :D

    DD
     
  4. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    From what I've seen of Hezbollah's recovery and rebuilding operation they seem to be doing an exceptional job identifying problem areas, getting resources and doing it with relatively little corruption. Say what you will about them being war mongering religious fanatics they could teach a thing or two to FEMA, the ICRC and any other organization that deals with recovery and rebuilding.

    Politically this latest war is looking more and more like a huge victory for Hezbollah.
     
  5. blazer_ben

    blazer_ben Rookie

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    After the earthquacke that killed 40 thousend people in bam iran 3 years ago, people and families in kerman and bam are living in the streets. yet the mollah's send our countries money that should be buying houses for THE REAL IRANIAN VICTIMS, TO HEZBOLLAH. what the **** is going here. enough is enough. let the lebbneese fend for themselves.

    It's not fair. why are'nt they spendong that money on there own people?.. anyone else see the hippocracy here?
     
  6. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    One could ask the same thing of this country and Iraq.

    DD
     
  7. blazer_ben

    blazer_ben Rookie

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    This is just sickening. tehran has 4 million homeless individuals. iran's drugg addiction is highest on the planet. unemployment is 69% under the 30 years age bracket. yet we are sending hunderds of millions to hezbollah?.. first we must put a roof over the heads of iranians who lost there houses in the mamoth earthquacke in bam....

    These mollah's are ant-iranian. they have tried to delete everything relating to iran's past. the great kings like Cyrus( created the first human rights charter, freed the jews and created religious tolerence) dauis the great and king xerxes the great are evil according to the mollah's.
     
  8. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    yes it was only "bush's" fema. fema was a well oiled machine before bush :rolleyes: lol
     
  9. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    In case you missed it, Bush redefined the role Fema was to play, and placed it under homeland security. So this is definitely Bush's FEMA.
     
  10. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    and FEMA was a perfect agency before? its troubles have been well documented in the past.
     
  11. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    Do past troubles excuse what has been happening with regards to Katrina? What does the past FEMA which was a different organization not under the Dept. of Homeland Security have to do with anything? We are talking about what has happened with FEMA since Bush redesigned it, changed its leadership etc.

    I previously didn't mention anything about past troubles or lack of past troubles. But I did state that this FEMA is definitely Bush's FEMA.

    What happened in the past doesn't matter, and was miniscule compared to the current problems.
     
  12. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    well at least qualified people were appointed as directors before..

    who did bush appoint as director for fema? I heard he was real qualified
     
  13. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    yeah the head of FEMA has been a cupcake appointment ever since it was created. the only one who ever did a good job was witt under clinton.

    i believe it was frontline that did a great expose on it. it completely ripped the bush admin and the general incompetence of FEMA overall.
     
  14. rrj_gamz

    rrj_gamz Member

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    Definitely the clean up should have happened more quickly, but seriously, do you really want to through good money after bad...
     
  15. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    how about just a plan??? or some guidance??
     
  16. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Actually the Bush gang is complaining that some of the $3,000 credit card amount they gave the folks in the Astrodome was wasted.

    why not go to New Orleans before you jump to Bush and FEMA's defense.
     
  17. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    I don't know who could say which destruction was worse or who's situation was more desperate or who is doing a better job. Other than just saying it for political effect there's no real creadibility in this thread.

    My sense is the New Orleans disaster dwarfs the short war in Lebenon; hundreds of square miles of utter devastation compared with hundreds of neighborhoods; the removal of rocky rubble in an dense urban zone to the muddy moldy polluted morass in New Orleans.

    I frankly don't know how you would say FEMA is doing a good job or a bad job; compared to what? The larger the scope and the more unprecidented the tasks the more room there is for apparent bungling. You have to work, evaluate and adjust to get any big job done. Maybe you compare it to Hurricane Andrew in Homestead Fla. but even that pales to a large urban population that lives(d) below sea level.

    Maybe Hezzbolah has the advantage of not having to assign work to the lowest bidder; that and the fact that if something goes wrong you get your hand chopped off.
     
  18. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

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    and Israel
     
  19. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    dubious --

    i hear ya. i just thinking something is better than nothing. so far, in the 9th ward and areas east of downtown, it's nothing. it's miles and miles of unpopulated wasteland now. as far as i know, there is no plan. all the land is owned by private individuals waiting on insurance companies to decide to pay or not. i'm convinced those insurance companies will skirt their responsibilities with the help of those in my profession. i don't know what plan b is.
     
  20. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    Relief Agencies Find Hezbollah Hard to Avoid

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/23/w....html?_r=3&oref=login&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

    KHIAM, Lebanon, Aug. 22 — When Mercy Corps and other Western aid agencies reached this devastated village on the front line of the battle between Israel and Hezbollah with food and medicine, they quickly discovered they had a big problem: the United States.

    Like all other international relief agencies here that receive financing from the American government, Mercy Corps is barred from giving out money or aid through Hezbollah, the Shiite militant group that is considered a terrorist organization by the United States. But as with all the most demolished areas in southern Lebanon, where whole villages have been flattened by Israeli bombs and there is no food, water or electricity, this village is the domain of Hezbollah — and little seems to bypass the group.

    That fact is nettlesome for the United States, not merely because it does not want Hezbollah to be strengthened even further after its war with Israel, but because it is eager to find and support a viable alternative to the militant group.

    That will not be easy. Hezbollah has been the fastest and, without a doubt, most effective organization doling out aid to the shattered towns and villages of southern Lebanon. Aid groups like Mercy Corps — which generally work through local intermediaries — have sometimes struggled to find other ways of helping, and even then, they cannot be sure their aid is not going through Hezbollah.

    “You can make a separation between what we do and Hezbollah,” said Khiam’s deputy mayor, Muhammed Abdullah, 45, who is organizing the local efforts, including donations of food and water from Mercy. “But of course there is coordination.”

    On Mr. Abdullah’s desk is a paperweight with the logo of “Construction Jihad,” Hezbollah’s building company, and in his anteroom are two posters of Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, the Hezbollah leader.

    Some villagers here say Hezbollah’s involvement is even less subtle.

    “Unicef has been here, and Mercy Corps and other groups,” said Ahmad Zogby, 39, whose house was destroyed, along with that of his parents. “But everything coming in, Hezbollah puts an eye on it, makes sure it is all given out in the proper way. It is all in the hands of Hezbollah.”

    Though Hezbollah is only one of many groups providing social services in Lebanon, its reputation for delivering those services honestly is unmatched, making it that much harder to circumvent. In nearby Nabatiye, for instance, Mercy Corps has begun working through the Jabbar Foundation, a nonprofit group run by Yaseen Jabbar, a wealthy member of Parliament.

    But the mayor of Nabatiye, Mustapha Badreddine, 55, says he considers the foundation ineffective. For his own part, Mr. Badreddine says he does not belong to Hezbollah, but that he works with it because it is trustworthy, far more so than any other group in the area.

    “You can’t say this money or aid is going to Hezbollah or not going to Hezbollah,” he said. “It is a matter of normal human contact.”

    David Holdridge, Mercy Corps’s emergency coordinator for Lebanon, said he believed that the Jabbar Foundation has done excellent work, and noted that it has received money from Unicef, the State Department and other groups.

    Mr. Holdridge also said the power of Hezbollah in Lebanese communities puts outside aid groups in a difficult position. The American government has not yet clarified its rules on giving aid and money in Lebanon, though more guidance is expected soon, he said.

    At a briefing on Tuesday, William J. Garvelink, an official at the United States Agency for International Development, said the agency was waiting on proposals from aid groups involved in the area. He did not directly address the issue of conflicts in distributing aid.

    For now, aid groups are forced to make difficult choices about how to work here, and with whom.

    “We clearly cannot and would not have any contact with Hezbollah’s military wing, or its social services arm,” Mr. Holdridge said. “But can we work with people elected under its political banner? That is a gray area.”

    Other international nonprofit groups receiving American government money are in a similar situation. “I think there are enough organizations and enough need here that it shouldn’t be a problem,” said Dr. Jeffrey Goodman, a medical adviser to the International Medical Corps, which gets some financing from A.I.D. “But there’s no question it’s a tricky situation.”

    Aid groups have faced similar issues before — most notably in Gaza, where they are still awaiting a full definition of what “no contact” with terrorist organizations means, Mr. Holdridge said. The issue also arose in Darfur, where the Sudanese government is accused of helping to carry out the mass killings and displacement of civilians.

    As an example of Hezbollah’s hold on everyday life in southern Lebanon, Ali Bazzi, the mayor of Bint Jbail, outlined his big dreams for his half-demolished town as workmen raced past and tractors rumbled.

    “We are going to turn this city into a model city,” Mr. Bazzi said, his arm clutching a trademark Hezbollah two-way radio. “There will be streets organized in grids, parks in every neighborhood and apartment blocks.”

    Bint Jbail, the main Hezbollah stronghold in southern Lebanon, saw some of the worst bombing and fighting during the monthlong war, in which Hezbollah, which is integrated with the general population, was Israel’s target. But Mr. Bazzi intends to complete the reconstruction without using a single cent from the Lebanese government, much less the United States or the West.

    Instead, Mr. Bazzi is counting on Construction Jihad. Just a day after the fighting stopped, Construction Jihad enlisted the volunteer services of 1,700 engineers, electricians, plumbers, architects and geologists who have cleared streets, dug ditches and built temporary bridges.

    While the government of Prime Minister Fouad Siniora has just begun organizing committees to study the reconstruction of the country, Construction Jihad has all but completed surveys of southern Lebanese towns.

    “We were victorious over Israel,” said Mr. Bazzi. “Now we have to rise to the occasion that follows.”

    Teams of volunteers wearing Construction Jihad baseball caps have crisscrossed Bint Jbail and other southern cities. On Monday, the organization began signing up families for grants of between $10,000 and $15,000 to help cover rent and furnishings until new homes are built, and began helping small businesses reopen. They have worked to help restore electricity in many towns and to get water flowing again.

    “We consider this work to be like prayer and fasting,” said Fouad Noureldine, director of projects in southern Lebanon for Construction Jihad.

    Some of the organization’s volunteers in Bint Jbail said Construction Jihad was in control of billions of dollars for the reconstruction, but Mr. Noureldine would not give a figure. He did say that much of the organization’s money has come from wealthy Lebanese donors in Africa, Latin America and the United States, though Iran is widely believed to have contributed a significant amount.

    “We will not wait for the government to do anything down here; we will do it all ourselves while they are still just talking,” Mr. Noureldine said. “In fact, we’re happy the government is late to do anything. They are trying to divide the resistance and the people. The longer they wait to deliver any services, the more they will fail.”

    Mr. Noureldine also dismissed the Bush administration’s pledge of $230 million in reconstruction aid. “If they were to give us all the money in the world, we would not take it,” Mr. Noureldine said. “They will not be able to buy our hearts. We are receiving billions now through our traditional channels. We don’t need American money.”
     

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