ZRB wrote: The Rockets were in the running, until they offered 4 million dollars. That is well below Hakeem's market value. He probably made up his mind to leave the Rockets after that pitiful offer, but not before. Hakeem said all that stuff about "change being good" because he is a classy guy, and didn't want to rip into the organization that has completely disrespected him for the last two years. I know you like Olajuwon, but I'm tired of hearing that it was all the Rockets fault that he is gone. Let's not forget several things: 1) He did not play an entire season the last 2 years missing like 60 games. 2) When he was healthy, for the most part, he was a shadow of his former self. I really think that after he had his knee surgery, he was never the same. Come on, when you have point blank dunks that are getting blocked by the rim or when you try to do a dream shake and fall flat on your face, it's obvious that you are not a dominant center anymore. Yes, he played good before the blood clot episode and after he returned, but this was only like 20 games out of a possible 164. 3) Also, don't forget how prideful and egotistical this man is. In the thread about the Matt Bullard interview, JAG tells us that Bull says that Olajuwon can be very "prideful" and that you can't win an argument with him. 4) He talked out of both sides of his mouth. For me, this was the most unforgivable. I could have stomached seeing him left if he had never said, "The best thing that the Rockets can do is to keep the same team together and not bring in anybody else." Well, the Rockets tried this. If they had tried to sign him for 10 million, then they could have not been able to bring back Norris, Taylor, Anderson, and Bullard. Now, ZRB, how were the Rockets supposed to do this? There are more but I'm really getting tired of talking about this--it's really beating a dead horse. I haven't even mention that according to one thread that he may actually be in his 40s. (I don't believe that although that would explain getting his shot blocked by the rim.) Just face the facts--he's gone but the sun is still going to rise in the morning and it will set later in the day.
Hakeem's responses can be so effin' confusing. bobrek, you're the CC.net translator. What does this mean? : "There was never really negotiation," he said. "The Rockets were not really in the game with the offer. That was not a decision. It was night and day. It was never really about that. "There was never really negotiation." OK. "The Rockets were not really in the game with the offer." So the Rockets weren't willing to pay you what you thought you wanted? Fair enough. "That was not a decision." What was not a decision? "It was night and day." What was night and day? The Rockets vs. Raptors offers? "It was never really about that." Never really about what? Are you saying it wasn't about the money? If not, then what game are you talking about? More playing time? I have no idea. ZRB, explain your buddy's statements!
I think what Hakeem meant to say was: "I planned to retire but the Rockets wouldn't give me a fair buyout of my 16 MEEEEllion dollar deal. I dogged it for the last two years out on the court. I complained in the press about playing for another team. Then I demanded to be traded over and over again. Then I decided I would start playing hard for 12/15 games so I could get another deal next year. I got an agent to protect me and to use the Rockets to drive up interest. And now I'm gone. See ya!"
Hmph. At least the others give me intelligent, well thought out responses. How did you conjure up this masterpiece? This wasn't really about the money. Hakeem is a rich guy. Itwas about respect. The fact that the Rockets offered him below market value, showed that he obviously was not as important to them as Shandon Anderson. Let me get one thing straight. I would not have supported giving Hakeem 10 million per year. While I think that he deserves that much money, that WOULD have hurt the Rockets. Offering him more than 4 million, however, was very doable. If they had lost Shandon in the process of retaining Hakeem, that would have been too bad for Shandon, but great for the Rockets, and their image. Yes Hakeem is oft-injured. Yes, he is past his prime. But the Dream contributed more than statistics. His mere presence lifted the Rockets into the level of elite teams. Don't use his 11-7 stats to fool you. He was much more important to the Rockets than those stats would indicate. Consider this: What is the point of bringing back Moochie Norris? He only averages 6 points and 3 assists. Why would they want him back? Simple, he contributes more than just stats. His mere presence helps the Rockets. My point is that even though Hakeem wouldn't have put up 22-10, he still would have provided the Rockets with CHAMPIONSHIP experience, and fantastic defense. That's right, DEFENSE!
Will somebody (you, ZRB) please disrespect me for $16 Million per season while I only play a bit more than half of those seasons?! Rockets management should have traded his bottom to Toronto two years ago. The deal was better and Hakeem's contributions in the interim period were negligible. This is a business-- high dollar and tight market. The Rockets cannot afford to decline deals that make sense for their future because of sentimental poppycock. If MJ can wind up in another uniform ANYONE CAN. And so should have Olajuwon.
Apparently his market value wasn't what you or he thought it was, since the demand for 38 year old centers just isn't what it used to be. Maybe the Rockets should have at least started with exception money numbers in contract talks ie:4.5 million the 1st year. Still, I don't see how a guaranteed 3 years at 13 million is that much different than 3 years for 16-17 million. If that 3 million extra dollars is the equivalent of "respect", well, then that's some sh*tty logic. Personally, I think his mind was made up a long time ago, and he's been putting on the invisible man act for a while now, making sure to say what the media wanted to hear while having a hidden agenda throughout this whole ordeal. I have nothing against him, but to say he was "forced into this situation" is BS. It goes both ways. If the Rockets truly had wanted him, they could have, and if Hakeem had wanted to stay, he could have put his ego on hold and accepted what he was worth to the Rockets.
Truth is truth ZRB. It takes no rocket scientist to call you out on this issue. Hakeem has been orchestrating his way out of Houston for months now. He's done it publicly and privately far before any "market value" was established this offseason. Apparently you've been hiding in a cave and haven't noticed or you just don't want to face reality. And I resent you telling any Rocket fan that Hakeem is not respected here because that is utter trash. I've lived in Houston 20 years and there has never been an athlete in that time who has gotten the type of respect and reverence that Dream has received here.
I wasn't referring to EVERY Rocket fan, but 50 percent of the people here have "lost respect for Hakeem". Did you not see Hakeem at the end of the season? He was happy. He wanted to stay, but to him, it looked like the Rockets didn't want the same thing.
It's clear to me that he did not want to stay. If he wanted to stay why would he have been trying to force a trade since last season? He openly talked in the press about playing for other teams. Why would he hire an agent if he wanted to stay? He can negotiate a $5 year $50 million deal but we can't handle a much smaller deal without an agent? He has been positioning himself for a while now ZRB. Sometimes people need a change of scenery to recharge themselves and that certainly seems to be the case here. I'm still pretty pissed and sad that's he's leaving. It's still a swirl of emotions for me. You can bet money though that when Dream is at Compaq Center next season in that goofy Raptor gear we will all be cheering him like he never left.
After rereading my previous post, I would like to go back to this point: "You have this desire to see what it feels like. When a player is traded, you have that curiosity to play somewhere else." My quote: "OK, gang, here is where I lose it. WHEN IN THE FLYING HELL WAS HAKEEM EVER TRADED!?!?!? WHEN??? Rudy's and CD's MISSION IN LIFE was to keep him in Houston! No free agents were being dealt with until they got Hakeem signed. UNBELIEVABLE!!!" ____________________________________________________ There could be confusion on what I meant here. Of course, Hakeem got traded after he requested it. However, he made it sound like Rudy and CD were actually planning on trading him in the first place, which is totally bogus!!
Don't kid yourself about money and respect. He is a rich guy but if he really wanted respect, he should've just retired. Hakeem did it for the money. I don't blame him. Hey if someone wants to pay me that much loot to play 10 minutes a game, why not? As for Championship experience, we have that with Rudy T., CD, and Matt Bullard. Defense? What D? I distinctly remember in the last 2 years seeing Dream just stand there in the paint and get POSTERIZED by other teams. I'm sad to see him go, but hey... This is the 21st Century... He's taking care of himself and you can't be mad at that. Thanks for the memories but its time to move on and stop living and paying for past glory!
Additionally, Hakeem wanted to create the impression that he would have to be pried away from Houston, so that the bidding war would escalate. He is plain damn lucky that Toronto feels that he can put them over the top. Seems like the other suitors were never very serious about him or seriously considered by The Dream. It's not ALL about money, but money is front and center important, i.e. he never really considered Cleveland.
Can't the man make a decision based on his own reasons? What's all the bitterness for? Do you really want someone to play for the Rockets who doesn't want to be here? Maybe he was insulted with the original offer, maybe he didn't like his role, maybe he didn't feel the Rockets could win it all, maybe he wanted change, maybe the grass is greener. I'm a computer programmer, and we have a tendency of stay at a job 2 maybe 3 years and leave for another. For more money, new technology, tired of the curent job, whatever. Does that mean I behave professionally like I'm having a midlife crisis? Maybe I'm too stupid and get lured away by these other companies and their promises of fun fun fun? No. If my contracts up, that's it. I either renew it or go somewhere else. I think this great weeping and gnashing of teeth is a little overboard. Next time, Dream will definately consult you and your feelings before making a career changing decision. BTW-I understand that you're fans and this is your right as a fan to feel this way. I just don't happen to agree.
I don't quite have a handle on these statements, but with the key statement about the Rockets never really being in the running, I think Hakeem means that he didn't feel the Rockets ever showed real seriousness about keeping him as a player (i.e. - not offering anything close to what he feels is his value). In other words, that as far as he's concerned, the Rockets never put themselves in the running. In my opinion, that doesn't translate into stringing the Rockets along with misleading information about how willing he was to stay. One of Jeff's posts in an earlier thread makes the most sense to me. Dream hasn't been happy with the team the past couple of years. He doesn't feel like the team believes he can contribute like he feels strongly he can. He feels that ultimately, this is exemplified in how much (or rather, how little) the Rockets were willing to pay him. He figures he's worth, say, 8 million, and the Rockets, he believes, could afford to pay him that much and still keep their integral pieces from last year's team (Mo, Moochie, etc.) Now don't get me wrong and think that I'm happy with Hakeem's decision or that I think he's worth what he feels he's worth. However, I do feel he's been consistent. He hasn't been happy. He was willing to stay with the Rockets if he felt they really wanted him for what he can contribute now and the next couple years. However, he does want a serious shot at a ring and wouldn't mind a change after a few disappointing years. He felt like, given the Rockets' stance during negotiations, that they didn't truly value him because they never offered a significant contract (6 to 8 million per year). Toronto, on the other hand, even though they couldn't offer him what he feels he is worth, made it clear that they felt they needed him to contend for a championship, not just to be a presence in the middle, but a force in the paint. So, bottom line, it wasn't 'just about money.' But, no, he was never serious about staying with the Rockets as long as he felt the organization didn't value him for the basketball player he felt he is. I think you guys are being harsh with ZRB. Granted, he is taking an extreme stance and isn't making it much of a point to recognize where you guys are coming from, which I hope I've been doing, but if the Rockets haven't felt like they could offer Hakeem more than they did because they want to sign a free agent center for the future this year, I understand, if not entirely agree, with Hakeem's decision and reasoning. You want to say Hakeem overvalues himself and wasn't considerate enough of the franchise and city that loves him by being more amenable to staying, I agree. The truth hurts. But I think he has been consistent and I respect his decision to try a change of venue for what he considers a real shot at a championship and a larger role on a team. I also respect the Rockets for trying to do what's in the best interest of the team. I don't think it's worth screwing up our cap situation and chances at acquiring the longterm solution at the 5 over the next couple years by overpaying Hakeem. But I do think Hakeem's probably better than Marc Jackson or any of the real center prospects this year. If 6 to 8 million to Hakeem wouldn't cripple our chances at acquiring a good 5 in 2002 or 2003, then I would've approved it, even if that's a little more than I would want to pay Hakeem. I'm sorry if this isn't put the most eloquently, but I am depressed with Dream's departure. I hope it makes sense for some of you such that it hastens your own stages of grief past anger to acceptance.
I think that most of you have misread his quotes. When he said that the Rockets "were never in the game", he meant that the Rockets never gave him an offer that would let him consider Houston. Obviously he held out quite a while, waiting for a decent offer from the Rockets, but that never came. I don't believe that he simply held out never intending to sign in Houston. He just never got the right offer.
I have to back up what ZRB said. Well first of all the statement that the Rockets were never in the running could mean a couple of different things. The way YOU interpreted it was that he never wanted to play for the Rockets. It could just as easily mean that with Rockets measly initial and insulting offer, he didn't feel wanted and so they were never in the running. Imagine if they had initially offered him 5 mil a season for 2 years, then he probably wouldn't have said that. I take the saying to mean that the Rockets weren't in the running because of their offer, not because he didn't want to play here or would refuse to play here no matter what. I'll be the first to admit I could be wrong, but when there are too plausible explanations I think it's wrong for people to jump to conlusions and rush to judgement.
DoD, why try to understand what the man was trying to say? Just immediately jump into character assasination--that's the way it works around here. Just like when Steve Francis said he "didn't speak Canadian", no one defended him. No one was horrified that the potential leader of our team for years to come could be so ignorant and inconsiderate. No one made excuses for the "man". Oh wait......it's either what I just said or "what have you done for me lately?".
