He reminds me too much of Will Perdue, Bill Wennington, Luc Longley, Chris Dudley, Mark Eaton, Tom Boerwinkle, etc. He's another big white guy who can't jump. Just so you know, Mark Eaton was a defensive force for Utah in the 80's. He finished 1st 4 times, 2nd 3 times, 3rd once and in the top 10 ten straight years in blocked shots. He was not a great rebounder but he was so big it was amost impossible to go inside on him. Bill Wennington and Luc Longley split starters minutes on three championship teams and last time. A couple of other big white guys that couldn't jump were Jack Sikma and Bill Lambeer. I don't think you would care to argue about how good those two were would you? Yes, I know he had some good games last year, but even Cato had some good games too like the game at Atlanta. Well shouldn't the fact that he had those good games last year coupled with the fact that he is already under contract plus the 1st round pick we spent on him warrent at least another shot at some serious minutes? How much sense does it make to spend a first round draft pick on someone then sign them to a 3 year contract watch them have some promise with some good games and then cut him? why can't we have 2 or 3 centers that are non-injury-prone? I am all for bringing in a third center like Marc Jackson. Not someone spectacular but someone with a good work ethic that can play with the boys in the post. That would give us a trio of decent to servicable centers if Cato will just play up to a small portion of his talent. I do think that Collier would make an exellent back up center in this league.
I cant believe Im going to say this, especially considering how I would slam Collier at the beginning of last year. But I'm with TheCat. There are those who are worse than Collier (ei - przybilla). As skeptical as I was last year, I was actually surprised and impressed at what Collier could do before he got injurred. Look at it this way, if collier can make some adequate contributions and gain some decent experience this year, he would certainly be a stronger presence coming off the bench in future years. I have no problem with a healthy Collier getting a lot of minutes this year.
I was being facetious when I said that about Pryzbilla, I was saying that almost anybody would be better than Collier (but not Cato). Unfortunately, we have all been spoiled by Olajuwon and now that he is gone, it's hard to swallow that our centers are ordinary or even less than ordinary. I hope Collier makes me eat my words...hell, I'll be the first one to post on here and tell him I'm sorry that I doubted him, but guess what? He'll probably be starting the year on the IR for who knows how long and when he does come back, his impact will be minimal. All it will do is probably let us release Pig Miller.
I find it funny that everyone praises Dench. Granted, he is a decent player and shooter for a man his size, but HE AVERAGED 6.4 REBOUNDS PER GAME IN THE AUSTRALIAN LEAGUE. With all the complaining about Taylor and how he cannot rebound (6.5 per game in the best and most physical league in the world), and all the pleas for a big banger type.......I'd have figured we'd all pass on Dench until he developed the ability to clean the glass a bit.
its really pretty pathetic how people can stereotype any person or player by the size and color. "hes big and white... that means he cant jump... that means he cant dunk from the free throw line" its almost a weird kind of basketball racism. get over it .. ur not rockets fans if all u look for in our center is that he can soar above the rim. thats talk from idiots that just wanna see the rockets make the top 10 countdown on inside stuff and not win bball games. i'd take collier over cato ANY day becuz he puts for effort and has what we call "BASKETBALL SKILLS".... so too bad if jason cant jump out of the gym but while he may not be the ATHLETE of some of the centers out there..... hes ten times the BASKETBALL PLAYER. bottom line: half of the collier bashers dont know a good basketball player if it bit them in the ass... give people a chance before u stereotype... im sure u people wrote off la frentz after he got injured his rookie year too...
What is it with you people? Yall are going on and on about how good Collier is. If he was that good then why didn't he start right away as a rookie like Francis or possibly Eddie or even Robert Horry? Can any of you answer that?? Don't tell me it was because of Olajuwon because we all know how Olajuwon played for the most part in the last couple of seasons. I've said it before and I'll say it again: he may prove me wrong but he is going to probably start the season on the IR for who knows how long and then when he returns his impact will be minimal. When the Rockets acquired him from the Bucks, all the experts bashed the Rockets for doing this. They all said that Collier was not that good--that he was at best a late first round pick but more like a second round pick. And it's not like CD and Rudy have made mistakes before: let's see does Rodrick Rhodes, Serge Zwikker, and Randy Livingston ring a bell? Or how about John Turner?? Let's don't forget the immortal extension given to Cato. I know it sounds like I'm bashing Rudy and CD, but my point is that they have erred from time to time in drafting players and in signing guys. Have they erred with Collier? So far, they have imo, but let's see what happens after this season and the next. However, if he's always hurt, I don't see how he's going to make me eat my words. We'll just have to wait and see. As for the remarks about stereotypes--I think you're coming up with something that is not really there. When you look back at the history of the NBA, there were many great white players like Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Jerry West, Jack Twyman, Billy Cunningham, Bob Cousy, Bob Petit, George Mikan, etc. However, with the exception of Mikan, how many of these guys played center? If you made a list of the 10 greatest centers of all-time, Mikan would be the only white guy if he even made the list. It's not stereotyping or being racist, it's being factual. I guess if Jermaine O'Neal was available, the Collier lovers would not want the Rockets to pick him up because Collier could do all the things that Jermaine O'Neal could do.
The Rockets should just re-sign Carlos and cut Collier. Collier may have had a few 6 point games, but he can't rebound or play defense. He is a waste.
OK, this is getting ridiculous. Nobody argued that Collier was starter material. The people who disagree with you are bringing up the notion that when healthy, Collier can contribute in a backup role. Who said that he was of the same caliber as Steve or Eddie (who by the way hasn't proven anything on the NBA level)? It is a bit premature to label Collier a bust after his rookie season especially learning the ropes against the experienced centers in the tough Western Conference.
I have probably read that post by The Cat about 5 times now(in different threads), and it conivnces me more that Collier can be a productive backup role-player. I'd still like to see Carlos be re-signed...he plays extrememly well with our team and is a great insurance player when Cato goes down every other week.
The Rockets should just re-sign Carlos and cut Collier. Collier may have had a few 6 point games, but he can't rebound or play defense. He is a waste. He averaged about 8 points and 3 rebounds in 16 minutes. You find me ONE backup center in the NBA who did that in the FIRST MONTH OF HIS CAREER that you think needs to be cut. By the way, why don't you argue with statistics and facts instead of ridiculous, bull**** generalizations? That "no defense" playing Collier combined in games against the Lakers to hold Shaquille O'Neal to 24 points and 7 rebounds and then 14 points and 5 rebounds. If Collier was those things you described, shouldn't the facts support that?
I remember when we traded and drafted J. Collier some were saying how bad that was, how Priz. was much better and how JC will never get to play. Then the season started and those some were impress by his play and how he was much better than Priz. and that Rudy and CD were masters at the draft. Then later and now he's injured and not playing and some are back to saying how he's a bust. I say give him some time, it takes at least 3 years to fully evaluate a player before calling him a bust. Take a look at J. Bender, he's never averaged more than 3 points in 3 seasons and I doubt indiana would trade him or call him a bust(IMO). My point is that he was just a rookie last year and injured so don't be so harsh on the guy and he did play well at the begining of the season so he can play when healthy. He's worth the try my friends.
I know that most of the people defending Collier weren't saying that he was a starting center; however, listen to what TeXaSalsa says: i'd take collier over cato ANY day becuz he puts for effort and has what we call "BASKETBALL SKILLS".... so too bad if jason cant jump out of the gym but while he may not be the ATHLETE of some of the centers out there..... hes ten times the BASKETBALL PLAYER. I don't have a problem with him saying that Collier puts out more effort than Cato, but hell so does a slug, so that's not really saying anything earth-shattering. However, he then goes on to say that Collier is TEN TIMES the basketball player. That's a pretty strong statement, especially considering that Cato will be the starter unless the Rockets bring in Marc Jackson or someone else. It seems like to me that TeXaSalsa wants Collier to start, thus the reason for my response. I didn't want to single him out, but I guess it was obvious who I was talking to.
Look, if the Rockets want to reserve their seat for the lottery, start Collier. If they want a chance to make the playoffs, start Cato- who at least provides a defensive threat.
Look, if the Rockets want to reserve their seat for the lottery, start Collier. If they want a chance to make the playoffs, start Cato- who at least provides a defensive threat. A threat to what? His own team? That's the only logical answer I could come up with. By the way, thanks for all the great evidence and facts you use to support your arguments...
You GO Cat! I admire your stamina in these arguments, but you should know better than to argue with ZRB. You'll never convince him of ANYTHING. The problem I have is the idea that anyone is either great or sucks. Somehow, no player could possibly be average. And no decent player ever gets injured. It's funny how one guy (Collier) gets an injury after his first DECENT month of his career and another (Rogers) can have a few decent games and suddenly the one who has barely had any opportunity at all is CBA material and the one who has had a below average, mostly injured career is an all star. Oh, brother!
manny ramirez i dont think collier is ready to be a starting nba center. if we can get another center like jackson, la frentz, etc. i'd no ? start them over collier ...however i strongly back my statement of starting him over cato. who tries harder? collier does cato have any kind of jump shot? no does cato know the basic fundamentals of boxing out for rebounds and playing post D? NO does cato have an offensive move besides the dunk? NO does cato have good hands? NO does jason collier whine to the refs when things arent going his way? NO is cato a offensive liability? yes does cato pick and roll effectively? hell no alot of these things collier is a YES to...cato has one advantage over collier in the basketball game and its body/athleticism. and starting him over collier for that SOLE reason is a huge mistake and i strongly feel that collier is a MUCH MUCH better basketball player.
Well, I'll say one thing...they're both injury-prone. You make good points about Collier but until he is healthy, we are stuck with Cato unless Rudy and CD can sign someone else like a Marc Jackson or a Jelani McCoy or whoever. Personally, I think we could be in major trouble unless someone steps up their game in a major way whether it's Cato or Collier. If it is Jason, then I'll be the first to admit I was wrong and eat my words. However, it bothers me that he only played 20 something games, was placed on IR for the rest of the season so he could be ready for this season and guess what..he'll probably be on the IR to start this season.
