I agree with this...Although the range has been growing...Its funny, $70K - $100K doesn't go as far as it use to...
hmmm......Not looking at any stats but off the top of my head, 70-130k.....I'm in the marketing biz, so I deal with the numbers a lot but most estimates I've seen are extremely broad because of all the variables. You may find a stat like 20-140k so every exception is included, but I'd say the 70-130k is a fairly accurate range.
But looking at the data post by others, it looks like 80% of families makes less than 80k per year as of 2003. That is just seems so low. I keep on seeing people buying homes for 400k or more, especially in larger cities. I thought most of the families had 100k plus.
Yea that seems right. You have to keep in mind that a lot of averages are skewed by the outragous range differences. 80% does seem a little high but I wouldn't be surprised if it was up there. Also, keep in mind that a lot of people are in dept trying to pay for these 400k houses..Theyre not just going out there paying cash for them.
No wonder they say US consumers are in deep debt! If you are making 100k and buying 400k house, that would be rough (these are the people in the top 15%!)
Its a societal trend to spend what you have. So, it turns out everyone usually ends up in debt or close to it. If you make 50k a year, you spend 40-50k a year. If you make 200k per you spend 160-200k per. Pretty much everyone is in the same boat. One just might be a yaht.
The wikipedia page on the "American Middle Class" has a lot of info to look over: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class Interesting stuff.
It's SOCIAL status. It's not amount of pay. Did you say DUEL? "I'm your Huckleberry... that's JUST MY GAME..."
Yeah, you know, when 2 incomes fight it out....duh And yes, it is social status but it is hard classify this in concrete terms, so people try to understand from a monetary point of view. Which is why it is hard to generalize it monetarily.
I think rimrocker is pretty on-target for a lot of middle class people. A lot of folks are living at the outer limits of what their income will provide for, and that includes the debt their income will provide for, and it's frequently with two incomes. Got that? Far too many people today are trying to "live up," to their parent's lifestyle. These are the same parents who paid $25,000 for a 2200-2500 sq. foot house in the '60's and early '70's (pre-oil crisis), have the house paid for, and find to their astonishment that it's worth 6 figures-plus. It's a nearly hopeless task for a lot of their children, but they're giving it their best shot. When they grew up, maybe Mom was at home, and Dad could provide for the family. Got a problem? Mom and Dad give you the bread. Need cash for college? Mom and Dad give you the bread. Need a down payment for that house, now that you're married? Mom and Dad give you the bread. It's a lifestyle I suspect many of you have experienced at some point, are experiencing now, or will experience in the future. You are middle class, but as rimrocker pointed out, you are one layoff, one illness, one accident away from falling below that nebulous line. And what about when Mom and Dad are no longer there? What if that inheritance you are banking on to clear up those mounting debts goes instead to a ridiculously expensive nursing home? Food for thought.
Richer people in the 160-200k range have bigger credit lines (better perks), generally have larger equity, can afford higher tiered life insurance, and usually spend a chunk of that spending money on investments (at cheaper rates). Short of divorce, they're definitely buffered for a large catastrophe. And if they have a second mortgage, it's probably banked upon making more money or acquiring objects with resellable value. The families with 2 wage earners with combined salary scale into the low 100k's are different. They need to buy and maintain another car, find ways to support their children while at work, generally eat out more, and most of it goes into the giant mortgage that comes from bad timing or a money crunch. I don't think they can be lumped into one group. It's just that one group thinks they're on par with the other.
Agreed...All that is the proverbial "yaht" i was referring to and this post was more about debt than economical structure.
And property/HISD taxes on a 400k house is close to 10k a year! You better have a family income way more than 100k.
I misunderstood you. I don't get how a family with 2 or 4 times the discretionary spending can be related to the same class. If they both save 2% and invest in 10% of total salary, wouldn't the richer group have 2 or 4 times the returns?
Those numbers actually look right to me. Growing up almost everyone I knew had parents that made a combined income of 60-90k. I remember hearing about my parents' single friends who were engineers and made $40k a year and I thought, 'wow... that's so much money. Maybe I'll be an engineer.' We definitely considered ourselves middle class because we always had food and some of the luxuries in life. As for people buying 400k houses, in some cities (the two coasts, especially) that's all there is to buy. A 400k house in California or NY would get you a 2 bedroom, 2 bath, 1300 sq ft bungalow if you were lucky. More likely you'd be in some 1100 sq ft condo. So those people just have to spend more of their income towards housing than is the normal percentage. If you hear about people doing that in Houston though, then they are probably spending beyond their means.
70k-130k sounds okay though I would probably say 60k-150k. Two married teachers would be around 60k (at least starting out) so I would not consider them poor. Lower middle-class maybe. Also, I wouldn't consider a family income of 150k as rich either. There's got to be some other name for it because I wouldn't even consider 200k rich. Upper middle-class? Something a little beyond that?
I was trying to remember the loose rule of thumb about buying a house. I think it's 2.5 times your income, if you have good credit, and not too much credit card debt. (they don't look at car payments the same way) That would enable a $60K family to purchase a $150K home. In Austin, where we live, 150K can still get you a nice house in many neighborhoods, although it's way out in the suburbs. In a more desirable location/neighborhood, 200-250K is more the norm now, thanks to all the people from the Coasts moving here, thinking they've died and gone to heaven when they see home prices, and driving those prices up. It's getting tougher for a lot of folks to stay in the middle class. I know middle class people who have a husband or wife without medical insurance, because they have one adult laid off, and to cover the other adult (husband/wife) costs $500-600 a month in premiums that they can't afford if they are going to pay their house note, credit card bills, various expenses, not to mention trying to put something away to get their kids through college. Thank goodness that situation doesn't apply to us. I suppose we're at the upper middle class bracket, whatever that is. Doin' groovy. __________________
I think people's perspectives are totally skewed. Middle class does not mean be able to buy a new car every 4 years, our buying $100 sneaks for your kids. It means being able to support your family and not having to worry about feeding and housing them. A middle class family shouldn't be able to afford a luxury car with leather seats. A family income of 70K is about right for the middle class. With that income, you can afford to own a modest house in most areas of the country. If you make over 150k a year, you are well off. You can afford a very large house in most areas of the country, pay for your kids college, save for retirement, go on vacation out of the country sometimes, and own a luxury car. You even have some money left over to buy yourself a nice watch and a Luis Vuitton for you wife. When I was a kid, only the rich relatives had a Mercedes. They kept in the garage and only took it out to show off. Now, it seems that everyone thinks they deserve one or something in the same class (I consider a F250 King Ranches a luxury car when you don't haul stuff for work), and everyone and their mother owns a fancy watch and $100 shoes.
