Do you support the actions of Israel or Hezbollah?

Major, I pretty much agree with your analysis.

I was actually going to go to Lebanon last year before my plans changed (for private reasons). I have three friends there, two guys from my MBA program and a very pretty Lebanese girl from a Spanish language course. I hope they will all be alright - tried to get in touch with them by e-mail, but only one of them responded so far. I figure they might all be out of the country already, though.

 

Fair enough.

 

Not for me either. Not excuses, just balanced reporting.

 

Agreed. I have always been anti-settlement.

Agreed there also... wall should have been on the '67 lines.

Both sides need a leader who can accomplish the sadly difficult task of peace... taking a chance ... (I had hopes for Rabin)... do any such leaders exist now?

 

Perhaps they should adhere to their last agreement where they were to withdraw from Shebaa Farms. The Hezbollah uses that along with imprisoned Hezbollah's as the reason for their attacks. By occupying Shabaa Farms, they were feeding Hezbollah fuel to attack Israel.

I really hope they didn't do it purposefully. The conspiracy theory thinking side of me thinks the real reason why this war exists is that both Hezbollah and the Likud party wants this war. Regardless of the outcome, both parties have guarenteed themselves increased prestige within their respective country. At what cost? The Lebanese civilians, that's all.

 

My old roommate works for the Daily Star in Lebanon as a journalist and editor. I really hope he's alright. It's been over 2 weeks since I have heard from him.

 

Most Israelis are anti-settlement, yet that hasn't stopped the government from funding those expansions. Most Israelis are both resentful and fearful of the religious extremists who make up the vast majority of settlers.

I would have been supportive of the wall had it been along those lines, I would also be supportive of a 'wall'/fence built along the southern border with Mexico. Every state has the right to do whatever it wants on its own territory.

Sadat was a reformed terrorist, Begin was a reformed terrorist, those two 'terrorists' brought about the unthinkable, they stunned the world. Sometimes peace comes about in mysterious ways, when you least expect it. Therefore, we have to hold out hope that there is or will be such leaders, but as things stand, one extremism is leading to another, and any voices of moderation are being crushed.

War doesn't usually allow for moderate forces to come forth, instead it empowers the extreme ones in not only pursuing their agenda while dragging their people along with them, but it also enables them to crack down on the opposition for being 'weak' and 'traitorous'...It works the same way everywhere...

 

The ISraeli civilians aren't enjoying their current plight, either...

 

Thanks for correcting me, I obviously left out a major detail.

 

More of a 'reminder' really, but you're welcome.

It's very important to keep in mind that both sides are suffering, even if one side suffers more than the other. There are roughly two million Israelis who are either living in shelters or a perpetual state of fear from getting hit by Hezbollah rockets.

 

Great post, tigermission.

I just wonder how one can join a terrorist group and still be a moderate force. I guess that only happens after witnessing decades of death, depravity, and destruction and living to tell about it.

 

I don't think I can vote in the poll, because it doesn't have enough nuance. I absolutely don't support Iran's surrogate, Hezbollah, which has caused such misery for Lebanon, not mentioning being hand in glove with Syria's domination of Lebanon for so many years. At the same time, I don't support Israel's current actions in Lebanon. I do support the State of Israel, and it's right to defend itself.

In this instance, they have harmed themselves, and their allies, the United States being the foremost one, as well as other states in the region who are either friends (Turkey), or are countries which have signed peace treaties with Israel (such as Egypt and Jordan), by their actions in response to what was a minor border clash, minor when seen in the context of the on-going conflicts involving Israel and the other actors in the region. It was completely excessive, incredibly damaging to what others have pointed out as a fledgling democracy, exactly the kind of government we should have been doing our utmost to support.

And what does Bush do? Sit silent and dither for, what is it now, 3 weeks? My god, what a cockup of a government we have regarding foreign policy, and how screwed up Israel's is, headed by a supposed moderate, compared to Sharon. Heck, maybe moderate compared to Attilla the Hun. As for Hezbollah, they can go to hell.

I ain't votin'.



Keep D&D Civil.

 

I obviously don't support either side and am pretty frustrated with both.

 

It's that but it also involves the fact that most militant groups that use terrorism as a tactic have realistic political goals in mind...the use of terrorism does not negate that fact. That's why it's laughable when some argue that you can't "have peace with terrorists", or that it's impossible to "negotiate with terrorists"...there is ample evidence to the contrary.

The real issue here is that when you dismiss any possibility for a negotiated settlement with the other side, you leave one and only one alternative: continued violence and suffering for all involved.

 

I think he figured that Israel would've pretty much crushed Hezbollah by now and he would step in pushing a cease fire now appearing as a peacemaker. What he, the Israelis and a lot of others probably didn't count on was that Hezbollah would be so tough.

I get the feeling we're going to be hearing about faulty intel once again.

 

I have a feeling you're probably right, Sishir. How many times does the Administration think that excuse will fly? Yes, there was probably faulty intel. I doubt that Israel expected such a rocket barrage as it has been experiencing. Yet Olmert is supposedly high in the opinion polls. How long before Israelis figure out that this reaction, to what I see as a minor border incident, has been a real blunder on many levels?

As for Bush and company, their coldblooded response, or lack of one for so long has been, IMO, a real blow to it's friends in the region, as well as Israel's friends, such as they are. Even in Turkey, I think we will be seeing an upsurge in Islamic fundamentalists and radicals. Egypt must be nervous as well. How long can they keep the lid on, with a small, historically secular state like Lebanon getting pounded by the Israeli military machine, and Egypt itself faced with an active Muslim fundamentalist religious/political movement?

What's going on is not only stupid, but incredibly short-sighted.



Keep D&D Civil.

 

If I had a nickel for every time I've said that..

 

I know that StupidMoniker and I both support giving Lebanon guided missile technology so that the next time Israel uses the capture of two of its soldiers, while simultaneously holding Hezbollah prisoners and having a policy supporting kidnapping and assassination, as a pre-text to bomb Lebanon into the stone age, they can respond against Israeli military targets instead of firing indiscriminantly into Israel, putting Israeli civilians at risk, due to their inferior military technology.

Is that a run-on? Probably...

 

If you had those nickels, Sishir, you could buy us a lot of beers sometime!



Keep D&D Civil.

 

I don't support either side, but I think Israel would be better off in the long run if somebody game them a good ass-kicking.

Israel isn't going to erradicate Hezbelloh from Lebanon no more can the U.S. erradicate Al Qaeda from Iraq or the Taliban from Afganistan.

When will we learn that this is a losing cause?