battier will be a great player at whatever position that we decide to put him. the only problem with him playing the PF position is that he doesnt have the weight. the guy is 6-8 and 220. you compared a lot of different guys, which was very informative. Great Post by the way!!!! sure he isnt that undersized in our system, but for being 6-8 and playing PF, he needs to have some meat on him. 220 really isnt big enough to be banging in the post.
I have a feeling we'll see just as much Tmac at PF as Battier. He is heavier, and I don't know this to be true, but I think he has a big advantage in standing reach over Battier.
There's no more use in fretting about Battier's ability to stop Duncan or Amare or Dirk than there is fretting about our inability to find a wing who can neutralize Kobe or Allen. No one does. All those players dominate. You don't stop them with one guy. Occasionally, a few times a year maybe, you see one of the premier defenders in the league lock a superstar down, and it gets a million headlines, but for the most part, you just don't stop these guys. Amare shot 73% of San Antonio the season before his injury. You just don't stop these guys. Not with one guy at least. It reminds me of when guys build their whole front line around beating Shaq. It's just silly. Dirk/Shaq/uninjured Amara and Duncan, etc. can get their shots off with ease against any one player in the league. You don't whine about a guy because he can't guard Dirk. In fact, considering that those top guys have physical advantages over everyone, I like the idea of facing them with a guy with superior defensive skill, who positions himself to take a charge better than anyone in the league, who won't out muscle, but might out position. Oh, and as far as the wasted on the perimter thing, how many teams in the league have big time scorers at PF and on the wing? Not many. If you play the Sonics, you have Battier guard Griffith, not Collison. Actually, looking down the scoring leaders at PF this year, there just aren't that many big time post scorers left in the league. Those few, you see how it works out and double as need be. Otis Thorpe wouldn't have locked down Dirk either.
Offensively Battier can play any position he wants. He certainly will cause matchup problems for the opposing 4 since he has three point range. Duncan won't want to guard out to the 3 point line, but otoh Battier won't want to guard Duncan at all. Thus, Duncan wins the matchup. My guess is that any opposing 4 with a solid low post game will also win the matchup against Battier. Another strike against Battier is that he is not offensively minded for himself and may not exploit any matchup advantage that comes his way. We will see.
so...in that case, we can keep yao on duncan, and have battier guard butler/elson, neither of which instill fear in anybody. i could guard them myself.
Understood. So, who is available and gettable that would be better defending against Duncan and Stoudamire than Shane Battier??? I only see one possibility. It involves one super long, super athletic Darius Miles. And most people here don't think he can play. What else is out there that available and affordable that would be better than putting Battier out there? And please don't say Gooden or Wilcox. We can't get those guys unless we give up something of value to get them and we manage to get them to sign for what they consider below par value. And even then, can they really be any more effective against Duncan and Stoudamire than Battier. I don't see it. Part of Battier's effectiveness is going to come on the offensive end. So, San Antonio runs Duncan out there with Elson/Butler. Sure, we've got problems with Duncan; everybody in the league does. But San Antonio has bigger problems with our lineup defensively. Battier is spotting up in the corner for the 3-ball. Who is going to defend him? Are they going to bring Duncan out there and leave Elson/Butler to get chewed up by Yao? Or do they put a big slow guy out on Battier, who can't even pretend to guard Battier on the perimeter and then leave Duncan one on one defending against Yao in the post (which Timmy can't do)? It's a pick your poison. Because if Duncan is going to guard Shane out at the 3 point stripe, he cannot help defend on Yao. It's too much space to cover. Phoenix? They either go small with Amare playing the 5 and Marion/Diaw at the 4, or they go big with Kurt Thomas at the 5, Amare at the 4, and Marion/Diaw at the 3. If they are running Amare at the 5 and Marion/Diaw at the 4, you've got the same scenario as above. Those guys cannot effectively blanket Shane at the 3 point line and double Yao. That leaves Yao one on one with Amare. Amare CANNOT defend Yao one on one. Or it leaves Battier open for the 3 ball at a 40% hit ratio. Offensively, they are going to try to do the same thing to us. They are going to try to iso Amare on Yao and make Battier defend Marion outside. Who else could we get that would do better than Battier in that case? And if they go big with Kurt Thomas, Kurt is essentially going to spot up at the top and Amare is going to operate inside. You would still put Yao on Amare and Shane is going to be the best defender on Kurt Thomas outside. See, that's the thing with Shane. With all these big centers that are taking Yao outside, I think we are going to see Shane switch off and take those guys out there and let Yao hang out on the interior with whoever the opponent is putting down there. Are teams really going to go to 5 guys working the perimeter against us in an attempt to get Yao out of the interior and think that they are going to win consistently? I hope so. Because it won't work. Phoenix and San Antonio are going to have plenty of trouble defending us next season. Who else could we get that would give us more than Shane is going to give us at PF? The only player that I can think of that is available that would POSSIBLY be a better defender against Duncan and Amare would be a guy like Darius Miles.
If you put Battier on someone you "could guard yourself," you're wasting his talents. Why put a defensive specialist on someone like that? Again, the best role for him won't be standing behind a guy with his back to the basket, regardless of how good that player is offensively.
I believe he will get half of his minutes at PF and the other half as a 2/3. There is no way Van Gundy let's Juwan sit the bench for more than 24 min. He has a man crush on Juwan unfortunatley. Although he may start at PF sometimes, he will still probably not be our primary PF. Who the heck knows.
san antonio would run finley or horry at the 4 spot vs. battier. tim would be left to cover yao, but with weakside help from parker (since rafer can't shoot fish in a barrel).
I think Battier said that he's gonna bulk up..or was he joking? Also, I'd like Miles, but I doubt we're getting him. Nice post by the way, and I think Battier can play power forward..I also still have faith in Howard and Hayes. I don't know, we'll have to see..we still have Howard to put in if Battier's having trouble.
Well, Elson only became a starter after the Nene injury and played 22 mpg with a 5/5 average, while Butler averaged 13 mpg for the second worst team in the league, so I just don't see those two pushing Duncan out of the five. It seems like they are more there to spell him and to give the Spurs a cheaper, but workable rotation when Duncan neets to sit a game here or there. Guess I just don't see Duncan playing that much of the four anymore. Injuries and age have started to catch up and he is not very athletic anymore, while that jumper is starting to suffer. He is still very strong, though, and plays well with his back to the basket. I think they would be much better off with a rotation of Bonner, Horry, and Williams the four because they can create more space for Duncan with their jumpshooting.
incorrect. duncan does not, has never, and will never want to play the 5. elson or butler will be starting at the 5 spot for the spurs this year.
I personally think JVG will play Bat more at the 2 and 3 positions to guard more of the perimeter oriented players. That's where he's been most effective his whole career.
Where Battier plays is one question that have my head scratching. My first impression was that bringing Battier is to shore up our perimeter defense, while spreading the floor to free up Yao/T-Mac on offense. And like everyone else, I just assumed he and T-Mac will start at the 2/3 positions. Making him a PF really messed up my understading of things. He's been a wing player all his pro career, is noted for perimeter defense, but not rebounding or post play(either way). While I'm not saying he can't play PF for 20+ minutes, it is going to be a risky move whether he pans out or not. If so, what's the point of bringing him in as a "known commodity" in the first place? I still think Juwan will be our starting PF(*sigh*). And that Battier/T-Mac starts at the 2/3. Then go from there based on matchups.
To put it simply, Darius Miles is stupid and weak. He would be swindled by someone like Duncan and overpowered by Amare. This post is way off. Abdur-Rahim is a much better post defender than Juwan Howard, and Ron Artest has much better lateral movement than Shane Battier. Abdur-Rahim was actually doing a decent job on Duncan in the playoffs, things got ugly when Brad Miller subbed in for him and showed he doesn't give a crap about basketball. Ron Artest does much more with the ball on offense than Battier, capable of powering his way to the basket and creating for others, so you want him handling the ball on the perimeter, not posting up in the paint. Battier is a blue collar guy on offense who will knock down open jumpers and move well off the ball.
battier should play the wing (ie 2 or 3) however, our 1 and 4 still suck.... the tmac and yao rules: just double them and leave everyone else
So, for instance, when SA played Dallas in the semis and either Diop or Dampier was on the court, that would mean Duncan shifted to the four and Mohammed and Nesterovic played the five, right? Well, not really. Those two centers (which one might argue are better than those San Antonio brought in this offseason) TOTALED 27 minutes in the Dallas series, while Dampier AVERAGED 25 mpg and Diop added 15 mpg. So, your suggestion that Duncan "has never" played the five at least fails to account for the semifinal series against Dallas when he "never" played the five an average of 35 mpg when Dallas put a true center on the court. It's far more helpful to explain why a given assertion is incorrect rather than just saying it is, then positing a different assertion.
TMAC is going to get the vast majority of his minutes at SF. That leaves Battier to play most of his minutes at PF. Everyone feels JHo is a weak link and I can see him coming off the bench. Maybe there will be moments in the game where TMAC shifts to SG and Battier shifts to SF but that will likely be the exception than the rule.
I personnaly think this offseason isn't over. What we need is a banger to compliment Battier. The way I see it, Shane we play against mobile PFs a la Dirk, while the new comer to be named, we be playing againt the Brands and Stoudamires of the league. Speaking of that, there was a rumor about a trade with Lakers and us getting Mihm. How does he far up against the "bangers"?
