Hell it bears repeating: YOU'RE ACTUALLY TRYING TO CLAIM A VICTORY BY ARGUING THAT HOWARD IS BETTER THAN CHRIS FREAKING JENT. I think my point has been made. Again, I am flabbergasted when you cite his horrible season last year as evidence of his value (11-6 on 46% shooting, playing 30+ mpg is not a good season, and does not show that he is an effectivie scorer or rebounder - IT SHOWS THE EXACT OPPOSITE.) If I am an opposing coach I want the ball in Juwan's hands as much as humanly possible because he is the player least likely to beat me. Now, I'm bracing myself for when you turn around and argue that his horrible season last year (which no longer apparently is a point of pride) was due to injuries -- which it eas not.
well jh hasnt fooled nobody. he and ryan bowen know that as long as they be loyal to jeff van gundy and stay on his good side then they will be a houston rocket for life no matter how bad they perform. lets take swift for example, he only got one year to prove himself before we threw him in the battier trade and for some reason it always seemed that he was in jeff van gundy's "dog house". so what did the guy do so bad that ryan bowen beat him out, he clearly is better in all aspects. instead he's now gone and bowen continues to get chance after chance to prove that he's trying. forget the howard and head trade talk, i wonder what we could have got for swift and and head or even with howard thrown in the deal too. lets face it guys, thats just how our coach does business guys. what a cold world.
No, I am dismissing a silly point made by a silly man. [channeling texxx] My point is that if you are reduced to claiming that Jent would start over Howard, you are so biased that your viewpoint doesn't even merit discussion. As a result of that, I am finished with you.[/channeling]
Last time I checked, only USA olympic teams have all-stars at every position ...and even that isn't flawless. Howard is good enough. He tries hard, isn't a distraction, doesn't make many stupid mental mistakes, is happy being a role player on this team and has something to offer (albeit not up to your desire for an all-star PF). Given that we can't hand pick every player, you do the best you can with what you got. We got Howard packeged with TMac ...we didn't have a choice. Given that, Howard is fine. I'm a Rocket fan ...not a pick and chose fan. btw, you made the Chris Jent comparison not me. All I said was there there is no comparison.
Last time I checked, I didn't ask for an allstar. I just want somebody who doesn't hurt the team like Howard. Chuck Hayes would be an improvement. ...because you said so? Because objective evidence indicates that he is not very good at all. i don't want an allstar, simply somebody who doesn't hurt the team when he's on the floor. He has nothing to offer on the court that is not negative or that other players can't do better, I guess off the court, you can say "veteran leadership". YOu look like you've picked Howard and are sticking with him no matter what, even though his presence on the floor hurts the team. No I didn't, you said he would play on the 1994 Rockets. He would be vying with Chris Jent as the third PF - i.e, DEEP bench. Thorpe is a far superior player and Herrera was a much better inside scorer, defender, and rebounder. Howard? (if you base it on his actual performance last season, not fantasy Fab Five memories) He performed like sh-t. If you gave Chris Jent 30 mpg, there is a very good chance that he puts up Howard-like numbers (and possibly better, as he was a much more efficient scorer than Howard was last year) You people just don't comprehend how bad he truly was. It was terrible, and he is the worst starting player at his position in the NBA, on a team with little to no depth. I don't know why that is acceptable to you, but it's not to me.
As long as Howard can average 12 points and 6 rebounds I dont see why the rockets would just give him away. He has a bloated contract, but he's the closest to a starting PF that we have.
LOL, thats just settling. The Rockets needs substance if they want to win. Those stats dont tell the entire story in this case.
Stealing a page from Clutch: Top 5 Juwan Howard apologist slogans: 1. He's capable of stepping it up and playing well because there was no Yao and Tracy, which is why he played badly. 2. 11-6! I didn't see no Bob McAdoo score no 11-6 last year. 3. He's a good scorer except when called upon to score. 4. Sure his rebounding and defense sucks but his role is to suck, which is what makes him a good role player. 5. Better than Chris Jent!
He is not capable of being a first or even second option on a playoff team. He was the first option for a LOT of the year and a second option for the majority of the year. He was 109 of 439 in scoring last year, so he was in the top 25% of the entire league in scoring. He was 51 of 439 in rebounding, so he was in the top 12% in rebounding. I would call that "above average" performance. He led the Rox in scoring 9 times last year for over 10% of the season. No, his role is to stick the 18' jumper so that the opposing PF cannot simply leave to go double Yao. He does that.
Andy, I feel silly even having to say this, but minutes =/ performance. You're smart enough to know better. The fact that he takes lots of minutes, shots, and possessions to make mediocre numbers is what what makes him a highly ineffecient, ineffective players - that is the thrust of all of the pages of thsi threads. I don't need to explain it to you. But since you're looking up stats, where does he rank among PF's who play 30+ mpg in those overall #'s? Top quarter? top 10%? Or somewhere else? Durvasa said it best on a thread from last week; if you're going to make a case for howard, make it on esoteric things like veteran leadership; don't go to the numbers because they aren't just bad, they're horrific.
all i know is that when juwan, tmac and yao were on the floor is was plain to see that the defenses primary objective was to make juwan howard beat them with that line drive 18 footer. defenses would leave him so open, they would practically embarass him to shoot it. given that set of circumstances, it should not be acceptable to hit less than 60-70% of those shots...and that, honestly, is a conservative number. how many 15 foot bank shots - left wide open - do you think duncan would miss? sure, he's a star, so let's use a reserve as an option...how many 5 foot hook shots - left wide open - do you think othella harrington would miss? even using a rocket as an example...how many 3 pointers - left wide open - do you think jon barry would miss? my point is that role players need to be extremely efficient in their specialty, even when under pressure, but especially when under NO defensive pressure. juwan howard's specialty on this team is to stick the open j, which he does not do at a high enough % to punish the opposing defense, to rebound (do we really need to discuss his poor rebounding), and to defend (i won't even bother). how can all of you JHO fans claim for him to be serviceable in the face of obvious facts and observations? to those that say "oh well, give me a better solution/upgrade" i say this: shane battier. sure, he is not a natural power forward. sure, he is not a great rebounder at the 4 spot. sure, he will have trouble - one on one - with the bigger power forwards. however, there are solutions to these problems: to compensate for his rebounding and need for help on defense, we will need longer, more-athletic-than-usual players at the 2 and 3 spots to help out on defense and rebounding. hence, the acquisition of kirk snyder and our incumbent tmac. the upside of battier at the four is that he IS extremely proficient at his offensive specialty - stretching the defense. leave shane open from three and i guarantee he will make the defense reconsider their strategy...three points at a time. if nothing else, inserting shane will open the middle for yao, tmac, and anyone else who wants to drive the lane. how is this logic escaping the jho defenders?
So, you don't want me to compare Howard to guys who play 25 MPG, but you do want to compare him to guys who play 37 MPG? Like I have repeatedly said, JHo is not ideal, he is not the best PF out there, but he is acceptable. He is not a net negative as he does his job and is consistent. The best comparison to a FA this year is Al Harrington who took over 36 minutes to average 9 points and 6.9 rebounds. This year, he is set to get a contract larger than JHo's with no indication that he will perform as well. I totally disagree. He is acceptable. Not outstanding, not incredible, but that is not what he is here to be. He is here to be an acceptable PF until something better comes along. He fills his role and does his job night in and night out. That is good enough for me until we can get a better deal.
That's funny. I saw him stick that j consistently all year long. Even Robby brought up statistics that show that JHo's jumper is one of his strengths. What games were you watching?
I saw the same thing too. Some people just have to have a scapegoat and will go to absurd lengths to support their beliefs. Take this thread for instance....
