because true love isn't a puppet show. he's not a cosmic rapist, forcing love on you. he gave us free will. we choose to be broken. if you're sincerely interested in the question and not merely debate, check out "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis. he'll say what i'm trying to say a lot more eloquently.
But the point of Christianity is to accept Jesus as your savior thus the Christian is saved while the Hindu isn't. Further Protestants often point out that you cannot be saved by acts but by faith alone which gets back to a frequent discussion topic here whether non-Christians can go to Heaven. So a good Hindu who practices selflessness and virtue still isn't saved. While you yourself might not consider yourself better than the Hindu Christian theology clearly distinguishes between those who are saved and those who aren't so belief does set you apart and according to Christianity makes you better since through belief you can enter the grace of God while a nonbeliever no matter how good of a person they are cannot. My point isn't to criticize but to point out that religious belief particularly monotheistic belief is a much more of a divider of people since a monotheistic belief cannot allow the possibility of other deities so those who don't believe must be wrong.
ok...but those who've worshipped mutiple deities have had their share of issues, as well. internally and with other faiths. perhaps the most condescending person i ever met to me personally, because of my faith, was a hindu guy. certainly not to say that all hindus are like that...but they don't carry a magic love and tolerance card.
A child's basic instinct is love from the moment it's born. It's not violence. A child learns violence. There's nothing natural about violence. In fact, the feelings associated with violence (stress, anger, anxiety, etc.) actually hurt your health. There's nothing natural or intrinsic about that.
I agree that polytheistic religions have plenty of issues too but my overall point is that religion does divide people and that accepting one faith does mean a rejection of other faiths. To the larger point regarding whether religion is good the fact religion does separate people and separation can lead to intolerance and hatred. The most we can do is tolerate each other.
I'm not sure about that. Even a baby who is loved will strike out with fist or feet when agitated or not getting something they want. Violence isn't an emotion like love its just a means of expression or to try to get something. As for love it depends on what you consider love. A baby is wired to love its provider as that ensures the baby is cared for but a baby is not going to express love in a broader sense of selflessness. A baby has no sense of maintaining love through its own actions. It can't act on love voluntarily. Love for a baby is almost all one way and mostly for the benefit of the baby.
Ahh, the free will argument is thrown out as usual.. let's break it down step by step: What controls our actions, choices, decisions? Nothing but our own souls, because God loves us so much he gave us free will So souls can do anything they want? Pretty much OK.. why don't Christians behave like, say, Mother Teresa all the time? I'm sure they're able to, right? Because they don't choose to Why wouldn't they choose to be good? Because they're weak and they succumb to temptations Well, then they should choose to be strong and not succumb to temptations! Yes, but they.. can't, they're broken So why wouldn't they choose not to be broken? Because they're flawed and they have selfish desires Why is this so, then? Umm.. I know, because of the evil in man Why don't they choose to live without this evil, since they evidently know about it? Are you kidding? You try it! Look, very few people can do it So there ARE things people can't choose to do? Umm.. no, God gave us free will.. no.. umm.. did you know that Hindus are no saints either? I met this really condescending guy once.. MadMax, I apologise for the not-so-subtle dig, but from where I'm sitting it looks like you clearly skirted Sishir's point
^ I don't think Mad Max deliberately skirted my question. I think he might've misinterpretted it but part of that lies on me as I was trying to relay a very complex point. Free will is actually at the heart of the point I'm bringing up. Why choose one faith over another if you believe that no faith is better than the other nor will one bring you closer to God than another. In the end a conscious decision is made to be a Hindu or a Chrisitian and in fact Christianity requires a conscious decision to accept Jesus as your personal savior. In that case a judgement has been made that Christianity is somehow qualitatively better than Hinduism or any other religion or no religion. I'm not saying this to criticise Christians since Hindus have made a choice to become Hindus tacitly stating that Hinduism is better than other religions. My point is that its mistaken to claim as a person belonging to a faith that you don't subscribe to a religion that sets people apart and really all religions are as good. The problem comes though when we try to debate why one religion is better than the other since there is no rational way of proving that one actually is better. We can't scientifically prove that circumambulating a Linga brings you closer to Shiva or that belief in Jesus gets you into Heaven. The most we do is tolerate each other's beliefs and coexists peacefully.
Wrong Chang. Accepting Christianity as your religion of choice does not marry you to the notion that you think it is better than any other religion, no more than buying a Geo Prisim says that the owner thinks it's better than a Lexus. There is a little matter of means and with it comes what one can afford. People choose a religion for innumeral reasons. You cannot suppose that one has actual studied every religion to make a claim like you are making, because if I think that Baptist is better than Islam, one would have had to studied both, which is not at all the case. You are also adding motive to the choice a person has made when none may exist. I am a baptist because my parents were, is there motive in that? Not at all. It is sheer laziness. Plus, there are some counties that wouldn't allow christianity to be preached and many people who would have been christian had to suffer in other religions that they didn't believe in. The bottom line is this: I just don't get these threads, I think somebody should bottle them up and sell it to the school districts, because everybody always seems to have a ph.d in philosophy and religion when it comes to this kind of discussion, and I doubt anybody here actual approached a written essay for school teacher with any such vigor as they do here. All you college C students need to chill and learn. South Park is not scholarly study my boys.
What set what off? You know there's a Rolling Stone article that about Scientology that's way better than South Park....
agree totally but not as a blanket statement. God (not reliegion) can break man's pride and selfishness- setting a man free
You are confusing better and 'better off' A Christian does not consider himself better, he considers himself humbled by the revelation of God's love and character because there is a deep sense of mercy and grace and the Christian feels personally better off in his own circumstance. That's why Christians feel compassion deeply about sharing such spiritual revelation with others. In fact the need in a Christians own life being met motivates the Christian to focus on the needs in the lives of others. If a boat capsized in a hurricane and a supernatural hand was saving survivors in the water and placing them on solid ground and you looked up and it was revealed to you that the hand was the hand of Jesus Christ and you were still close enough to those in the water to yell 'grab the hand' what would you do? I wouldn't be concerned about whether it was an atheist drowning, a Hindu or a Muslim. Based upon my own experience the motives in my heart would be love and compassion. I might be deceived about how I got on solid ground, but I would still be true to my own perceptions and show compassion for those still in the stormy waters.
Love. People were not created broken. Sin broke people. We were created in God's image, as moral beings (free choice) we had capacity and moral responsibility to love. Not to get to religious, but treating each other right is love and being forced to do it is not love. Love is the intelligent and morally right way for humans to choose to treat one another.
Okay, and I'm not saying he did.. but when I get into debates with some of my Christian friends they use diversion tactics frequently (start attacking science or other religions), and even here, posts that raise strong points are sometimes conveniently ignored. Just gets on my nerves a little This I agree with, completely. The fundamental tenets of your faith preclude you from doing so. Religious leaders can meet all they want and preach for peace, but at the end of the day they still go home thinking - rather, "knowing" - that the other side is wrong and is going to hell. Nice-sounding words such as understanding, tolerance and harmony are nothing more than fronts. But you're right, that is the most people can do.. a don't-hurt-me-and-I-won't-hurt-you attitude is all we can ask for
The point of Christianity is not what Christians do- accepting Jesus or making a decision. The point of Christianity is what God does- revealing Himself, sending His Son for the purpose of salvation and exercising His love, grace and mercy towards man. God saves people, Christians don't. If Christians could save anyone they would have something to boast of. The focus is not how good a Christian is or a Hindu is; the focus is on the truth about God. In fact in some cases the Christian religious person is at a disadvantage to all other religious people because of religious pride and prejudice- since with knowledge and truth also comes responsibility- the greater judgement will be reserved for the hypocrite. On judgement day better to be a Hindu than a hypocritical Christian in my view.
rhester: Like many others, I'm incapable of believing in the God of the Bible. Like many others, I would like to think that I'm capable of love, though And if that's not enough for your God, then.. well, I don't know what to say. So be it
Forgot to add: I have yet to hear a Christian explanation of free will that addresses its logical inconsistencies and circular reasoning with clarity and without Bible-quoting. Anyone?
There are only two ways to look at others- love and selfishly. How do you think all the 'Christians' with racial prejudice in their hearts are going to fare on judgment day? When my own children are wrong I don't hate them or stop loving them. When I am wrong I don't need rejection, I need help. I try not to watch Christian TV or view homosexuals, Hindus, atheists as bad, wrong, evil, ignorant people. I have Good News to share with them and the motive God has placed in me is love. I am not sure if my son wants to know what I think of driving drunk and speeding through red lights but there is a motive of compassion and love that keeps prompting me to share rational truth with him, even when he believes differently. This can be done peacefully without looking down on him or humiliating him. People of all religions should be able to share with each other on the basis of love. I personally try to keep a frame of reference and a point of focus not on people but upon God who is good, loving, just, holy and gracious ( along with all the other character He has revealed about Himself in the Bible.) Not that I am any more successful than anyone else, but it remains a conviction in my own heart.
You are correct of course that many don't have much of a choice regarding religion since they don't enough about other religions or just follow what their parents and culture believe but you still have a choice. You can still decide to believe or not believe. If you're a Baptists just because your parents are Baptists but you don't actually believe that Jesus is your personal savior I don't think many Christians would consider you as honestly Christian. Belief is still a conscious decision. You could be forced to go through the motions of a religion but belief can't be forced on you. The decision to believe is a value judgement that you make. Geez Professor its an internet discussion board on a sports fan site not a scholarly forum. Get off your high horse.
