...That he can make players BETTER. After reading some of the posts about Snyder I can't help but think of the players like him that came in with potiental and never really flourished in the "system". Stromile came in as an underachiever and after a year with Van Gundy left the same way. Mike James wasn't good enough to stay here but went to Toronto and blew up. What gives? Maybe is was over for Derek Anderson but we did acquire him and really got nothing in return. Luther did really well at the beginning of the season but after his acclimation to Gundyball he fell off. Maurice Taylor Cuttino Mobley The list goes on. Remember what Rudy did? He plucked Chucky Brown out of obscurity and made him a formidable player in the Championship years. Remember what he did with Kenny and Sam? Hell, Tom Thibodeau got more out of JL3 than Gundy did...I know it's a stretch, but let's see what happens. I think Kirk Snyder is going to be as mediocre as he was with the Hornets because I don't think that Jeff has the ability to make players better. My .02
Your post is exactly the reason I have labeled JVG "the cowbird." He has proved incapable so far of developing young talent -- he let's someone else do the dirty work of raising fledgling players. Then, when they are "ready," those players are solidly under contract to another team or too expensive to acquire.
Rafer Alston Juwan Howard Luther Head (Draft considerations/$4.3 Mil trade Ex on a sep. deal) for S-n-T Al Harrington Salim Stoudamire Josh Childress Why Hou does this trade: This gives Houston a youthful option for an aging team. The Rockets need more depth at the 2/3 position, along with a PF. Childress has lost his role in ATL behind Marvin Williams and Josh Smith. He could come in and possibly start at the SG spot. If Houston opts at Mcgrady back at the SG position, that he played for years, Childress could come off the bench at both the 2/3 position. The Rockets would love the hustle and heart of Salim. He plays with the fire that made Sura, Barry, and Mike James popular in Houston. He would be a crowd favorite instantly. The Rockets have been linked to be bringing their Greek PG project over from Greece, and would give him the oppurtunity to come in and get good mins. Salim would be great as the back-up PG. Landing Al Harrington gives the Rockets a younger, more atlthetic starting PF. Think Stromile Swift with a brain. He could be the answer to Houston's woes this off-season. Why Atl does this trade: The Hawks would actually have the depth to make it back into the play-offs for the first time in several years. This could be broken down in two seperate deals if the Hawks wanted the $4.3 Mil TE the Rockets have been dangling. That would be enough to get the Hawks a 3rd C, and push them into the 4-8 seed in the play-offs. Rafer Alston could start, and Atl could have Speedy Claxton (2nd in voting for 6th man) come off the bench. Juwan Howard, a well traveled offense Vet. seems like he would mesh well with the no-nonsense Shelden Williams. Shelden could start, with Howard coming off the bench behind him. Luther Head is a crowd favorite combo guard that plays big. He has a great drive to the basket, and excellent 3pt % from behind the arc, which he hit many clutch shots in the absense of Yao and Mcgrady. I think this deal would give the Hawks great depth, and a better over-all team. Hawks PG Alston/Speedy/Lue SG J.Johnson/Head SF J.Smith/M.Williams PF S.Williams/Juwan C Zaza/ (FA pick-up/or the Rox 4.3Mil TE) Rockets PG V-Span/Salim/Sura SG Mcgrady/Childress/Snyder SF Battier/Novak/Bowen PF Harrington/Hayes C Yao/Mutombo
The reason why we could 'pluck' anyone back them and make them look decent was b/c of the Dream...he was so good he made anyone look good. I'm not saying Yao cannot do that, I think he can and will but he is not there yet. It could have something to do with JVG but IMO not solely entirely his fault. Dream just made everyone else that good.
No, no, no. I'm not crediting Rudy for developing Hakeem. I'm crediting Hakeem for making the Chuckys and Kennys of the world look suddenly brilliant. Rudy just had the good fortune to be coach at the time.
1. stro did not get better with jvg but he also did not reach up to his potential in his previous years with other coaches. 2. mike james flourished because he was the #2 man and jacked up a lot of shots. i mean, c'mon..he was on the raptors. more opportunities to play well than if he was on the rockets. 3. maybe we got nothing in return for anderson because he is old and still injury prone? 4. luther hit the rookie wall. you can't really contribute the poor playing of these as jvg's doing. more than likely there were other contributory factors. also, hasn't yao gotten better under jvg? jon barry and sura also has done relatively well in 04-05 after playing for jvg.
I completely agree with your excellent point Will -- Rudy T made Hakeem one of the all-time great players. How many championships did Hakeem win without Rudy? Again, strong point Will.
Well technically we got Snyder for Anderson (Anderson = TE = Snyder). Considering Anderson is finished we got decent return for our mistake of signing him. Snyder is bigger, younger, more athletic, and shoots better.
good lord, kid - must you post this trade idea in every effing thread? it's one thing if it's related to the topic of the thread, and quite another if it's not.
Hmmmmm......players who have improved under JVG and his coaching staff? ~cough~ Yao Ming ~cough~ ~hack~ T-Mac ~hack~ I can see your perspective Another Brother but I would have to say that the players you listed were the their own problem rather than blame it on JVG. IMHO Luther just hit the perverbial "rookie wall" and came around near the end of the season. Stromile is just not a smart player, lots of "athleticism" but as JVG says how does that translate into the game? DA didn't play hardly at all in Miami during the regular season and didn't even touch the floor in the playoffs. Mike James was a decent bench player for us and had Sura not gone down we probably would not have traded him but we had no real PG to speak of and our hand was forced. As far as his year last year it can be summed up as "it was a contract year on a really bad team". MoTa? please...that ganja smokin', cheeseburger eatin' fool is so over rated its not even funny. Its not like he went to NYK and had a break out season. Cuttino actually had a great year under JVG and was the only player in the T-Mac trade that I hated to lose. He had a good year with the Clippers but I wouldn't say that JVG made him decline at all. The very fact that the team we had two years ago with the "white boy power squad" was able to make that great run and finish with such a good record is all I needed to see about JVG. Talk about getting a team to over achieve!
Wait a minute. Rudy was a scout for a long time and knew what type of players to plug. Chucky Brown, Mario Elie, Pete Chillcutt, Maloney. All potential CBA players.
Beside his great ability to develop young players he's a great judge of talent. In all seriousness JVG is allergic to any player 25 or younger and his idea of building a team is plugging old school players that were great in their day but washed up now into his 'system'. The NBA has left JVG behind because he refuses to change along with the league. I guess you might have noticed I'd like to see another coach in Houston. In the end the JVG era in Houston will be seen as wasting some of the best years of the Yao and T-Mac duo.
none of those players listed have anything to do with van gundy failing to develop them. stromile swift was a mediocre underachiever who couldn't get going for any of the coaches he played for before van gundy, which includes hubie brown and mike fratello. you want to argue they suck too? mike james was certainly good enough to play here last year, but with no real pg on the team, management(unwisely) moved him for a pure point in rafer. he didn't blossom because he was away from jvg, he busted out because he was option #1b in toronto. you think he would have put those numbers up on any team that went to the playoffs last year? maybe their coaches can't develop players either... jvg didn't fail to develop derek anderson. that's just ridiculous. i don't think van gundy is any less capable of developing players then any other coach. luther head is one of the very few rookies that van gundy has had and he turned from the 24th pick into one of the ten best rookies in the year last year. you're going to use that against van gundy? it's called the rookie wall that he fell off in the second half of last year. how about chuck hayes? has played very well as an undrafted rookie under jvg. yao ming would be a superstar anywhere but he fits into the mold of a young player blossoming under van gundy. when so many people wanted yao in the high post hitting cutters, jeff has forced him into the low post where he is now the most dominant man in the paint. he deserves some credit there. tracy had arguably his best/most complete season under van gundy two years ago. jon barry and dikembe mutombo rejuvenated their careers from cast offs to huge playoff drive contributors under van gundy. this whole thread is based on a myth.
