1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

The U.N. & the terroristic endeavors from Saddam...

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by ROXRAN, Jul 11, 2006.

  1. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    18,897
    Likes Received:
    5,279
    Reformed from the manner in which it conducts itself...It has more than committees who do reports and you may or may not know that since defamation is what you do for a living...

    I think Sam Fisher has proven in this thread that he knows how to lie, misrepresent and act thick-headed because he chooses to, wants to, enjoys it in sexual perverted way...In other words, he is a liar, er...lawyer.
     
    #21 ROXRAN, Jul 11, 2006
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2006
  2. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    18,897
    Likes Received:
    5,279
    "UN peacekeepers are sent to various regions where armed conflict has recently ceased, in order to enforce the terms of peace agreements and to discourage the combatants from resuming hostilities, for example in East Timor until its independence in 2001. These forces are provided by member states of the UN; the UN does not maintain any independent military. All UN peacekeeping operations must be approved by the Security Council."

    I would characterize this as a militarized tool, even without "their own army"...The point being that if the security council can agree on the need to act, a more international blanket to act against terroristic regimes is preferable...
     
  3. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    18,897
    Likes Received:
    5,279
    "The Oil-for-Food Program was established by the UN in 1996 to allow Iraq to sell oil on the world market in exchange for food, medicine, and other humanitarian needs of ordinary Iraqi citizens who were affected by international economic sanctions, without allowing the Iraqi government to rebuild its military in the wake of the first Gulf War. It was discontinued in late 2003 amidst allegations of widespread abuse and corruption; the former director, Benon Sevan of Cyprus, first was suspended, then resigned from the UN, as an interim progress report of a UN-sponsored investigation led by Paul Volcker concluded that Sevan had accepted bribes from the Iraqi regime, and recommended that his UN immunity be lifted to allow for a criminal investigation."

    I would characterize this as an example of why reform is currently needed to give better international confidence in the internal workings of the U.N. since I believe the U.N. organization is a tool we absolutely need in a post 9/11 world...

    and ran the right way is a tool for better peace-keeping and reconstruction means (i.e. food, water, etc.) after the "black helicopters" do what must be done...
     
  4. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    62,115
    Likes Received:
    41,825
    So I take it this is your way of saying you give up?

    The UN is as strong as the member states allow it to be, which in terms of ceding authority, money, and men, has traditionally not been very much (domestically, due to black helicopter-fearing second amendment nuts, such as....).

    Otherwise it's basically just a forum of communication and an assortment of report-generating bureaucrats rather than an active entity. Not particularly worthy of commendation in its own right, but not nearly as responsible or capable as people seem to insinuate. I guess a quick perusal of "Wikipedia" isn't enough to disabuse people of that notion.
     
  5. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    18,897
    Likes Received:
    5,279
    I don't give up unless you take it out of my cold dead hands...And the point being as I demonstrated is that we need to allow it to be. (The world community and the U.S. regarding the aims and tactics of the U.N.) I would argue that it has been alot especially in the mid 1990's...
     
  6. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    18,897
    Likes Received:
    5,279
    "Total UN peacekeeping expenses peaked between 1994 and 1995; at the end of 1995 the total cost was just over $3.5 billion. Total UN peacekeeping costs for 2000, including operations funded from the UN regular budget as well as the peacekeeping budget, were on the order of $2.2 billion"

    I would characterize this as The UN organization demonstrating that the member states allow it to be "much" when ceding money, and obviously men and authority...
     
  7. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    18,897
    Likes Received:
    5,279
    "In 2006, however, Save the Children implicated UN peacekeepers for sexually abusing children by demanding sex in exchange for basic necessities like food. As reported by the Washington Times [13] , "The United Nation’s “sex-for-food” scandal continues to spread. As the human rights group Save the Children documents in a new report, U.N. peacekeepers in the war-torn, refugee-rich Liberia have been accused of selling food for sex from girls as young as 8. They are the latest victims in a growing tragedy that includes girls from Burundi, Ivory Coast, East Timor, Congo, Cambodia and Bosnia, proving correct a prediction made last year by the assistant secretary-general at the United Nations for peacekeeping operations."

    I would characterize this as an example that such power in numbers (men, money, authority) from the U.N. must be better reviewed and examined...In short the U.N. can be a vital tool towards the tactics needed in a post 9/11 world but reformation is needed to do so...
     
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    62,115
    Likes Received:
    41,825
    No.

    3.5 billion, yearly, worldwide, is a drop in the bucket. You know how much 1 month in Iraq costs the US MIliltary? approximately $4billion.

    As far as authority and men - when developing countries lend their armed forces out (who otherwise wouldn't get paid) to the UN to raise cash - that's not the kind of thing that I'm talking about.

    Considering that the UN was founded with a firmly 20th c. world view about avoiding future world wars between great powers, I'm not sure whre your getting this "vital tool in a post 9-11 world " business. As I've been straining to to point out above - it's particularly ill-suited to that particular task and neither designed for nor capable of it.
     
    #28 SamFisher, Jul 11, 2006
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2006
  9. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    18,897
    Likes Received:
    5,279
    Yes.

    3.5 billion is still 3.5 billion and is an aspect of financial assistance spread from other nations' scheduled payments which collectively soften necessary expenditure of one nation in the war on terror for the benefit of the global community...I bolded your part which only further emphasizes the need for reformation...I vehemently disagree with your assessment.
    The U.N. has the ability to do more in the planning for peace phase of infiltration of terroristic regions or states as it relates to the War on Terror. In addition, an "international" blanket will mask agenda-based criticism...
    Even though, they have had failures in the notated peacekeeping missions from my earlier post, they have shown established success as well...

    Reformation and internal examination for change...
     
  10. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    62,115
    Likes Received:
    41,825
    yes. 3.5 is 3.5. It's not nearly enough to fund a global anti-terror army that you propose. What's your point?

    I hate to break it to you hoss, but most of the globe disagrees, vehemently with that statement - and when you're dealing with an organization like the UN - consensus matters.

    Based on what? More wikipedia perusal? :confused:

    You're simply dead wrong if you think what I'm saying is not true. The UN was founded as a replacement for the League of Nations, and its purpose was to prevent global wars - "peace and security" was the early mantra - this is all established fact.

    Read the UN Charter bro, here is the very first sentence:


    It does? When has it ever done this in the past? You seem to have far more confidence in the Secretariat than even the most wild-eyed UN backers. or maybe it's UNESCO you're talking about here? EcoSoc? ICJ?

    You're simply talking in vague slogans that aren't in touch with reality. Nice and dreamy, but get real dude.
     
  11. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    18,897
    Likes Received:
    5,279
    Apparently all the lies you have told at work are compromising your comprehension...Here, print the following: In fact, duct tape it to your briefcase...

    The U.N. has the ability to do more in the planning for peace phase of infiltration of terroristic regions or states as it relates to the War on Terror. In addition, an "international" blanket will mask agenda-based criticism...
    Even though, they have had failures in the notated peacekeeping missions from my earlier post, they have shown established success as well...

    Please realize I'm not talking about a complete funding of a global terror army...and I certainly don't propose that...(libel again btw)
    I'm talking about the UN being able to do more through reformation and which may assist primarily with the phase of peacekeeping in the regarded "planning for peace" phase of the war on Terror...When we infiltrate terroristic states or regions, the aftermath help would be what the UN could be capable of even moreso through reformation...
     
  12. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    18,897
    Likes Received:
    5,279
    "World leaders agreed upon a compromise text with such notable items as:

    the creation of a Peacebuilding Commission to provide a central mechanism to help countries emerging from conflict;
    the agreement that the international community has the right to step in when national governments fail to fulfill their responsibility to protect their own citizens from atrocity crimes;
    a Human Rights Council (created May 9th and becoming operational June 19th)([25]);
    an agreement to devote more resources to UN's internal oversight agency.
    several agreements to spend billions more on achieving Millennium Development Goals
    a clear and unambiguous condemnation of terrorism "in all its forms and manifestations."

    I would characterize this as "concensus does matter" when it came to the talk of the how to reform the U.N....
    I would suggest that this plan must be utilized and put into action aggresively if the newly established charter states as it is implied, then the goal of the U.N. would absolutely lend definite assistance moreso than ever in the peacekeeping phase I proposed as "planning for peace" continues in the startegy of the war on terror...

    Reformation NOW!...
     
  13. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    18,897
    Likes Received:
    5,279
    Yep, Just sit back and take it good as the reasoning and fact based truth gets spit on you...Enjoy it. I know I did... :D
     
  14. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    62,115
    Likes Received:
    41,825
    And guess what the products of these councils and commissions will be?

    Why, the UN's primary weapon: reports.

    maybe you should read some sometime.
     
  15. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    18,897
    Likes Received:
    5,279
    "The UN has helped run elections in countries with little democratic history, including recently in Afghanistan and East Timor.

    The UN also runs international criminal tribunals, including the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda (ICTR), for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY), the Special Court for Sierra Leone, and the Ad-Hoc Court for East Timor."

    I would characterize this as a specific example of how the U.N. has helped in the overall tactics in the war on Terror, and I would catergorize such an example as the phase of "planning for peace" phase which is very vital and necessary...

    Of course more can be done in instances such as this through better examination of internal workings and reformation...
     
  16. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    18,897
    Likes Received:
    5,279
    "The UN has helped run elections in countries with little democratic history, including recently in Afghanistan and East Timor.

    The UN also runs international criminal tribunals, including the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda (ICTR), for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY), the Special Court for Sierra Leone, and the Ad-Hoc Court for East Timor."

    I would characterize this as a specific example of how the U.N. has helped in the overall tactics in the war on Terror, and I would catergorize such an example as the phase of "planning for peace" phase which is very vital and necessary...
    I furthermore would deduce that instances such as those above are important aspects of what some would say "primary weapons"...eh Sam...

    Of course more can be done in instances such as this through better examination of internal workings and reformation as suggested by U.N. leadership...The next step is to just do it!...
    I almost feel bad for Sam, because I'm debunking all his points with specific and referenced reasoning way too easily...Maybe he didn't use enough defamation tactics today in his profession...Perhaps he needs some drugs and a few drinks to remedy the heavy toll of all the misperception and blatant lies he performs as a lawyer...Up next will be some silly cartoons, and extra silly posts as predicted...
     
    #36 ROXRAN, Jul 11, 2006
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2006
  17. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    62,115
    Likes Received:
    41,825
    ROXRAN, you're babbling like an incoherent drunk. You're triple posting copy and pastes from wikipedia and then making bizarre statemetns that I don't understand based on some weird faith in UN-style bureaucracy to cast magic spells and do things to "solve the war on terror."

    That is very nice, but in the real world we have real problems that can't be solved by a tea party on the upper east side. Thanks for your .02 and they will be taken under advisement.
     
  18. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    18,897
    Likes Received:
    5,279
    Here is a real good example...First off, Have I honestly illustrated a "weird faith in UN-style bureaucracy" from my prior posts...No. absolutely not.

    In fact, I would characterize my posts as a hope, plea and suggestion that reformation does take place...especially when specific examples have been cited. I have further cited examples which allude to what the U.N. can and ABSOLUTELY do more of which is beneficial to the war on terror strategy post 9/11 (most notably peace-keeping missions...in the "planning for peace phase")...The scope and manner is obviously after infiltration...

    Ladies, and gentlemen...what we have here is a failure of SamFisher to establish any kind of rebuttal to what all lawyers fear most...: The honest truth of opinion backed by quantitative and qualitative reasoning...I rest my case,...keep the change...
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now